I'd agree if I ever saw a wood and canvas canoe (though there is YouTube!). Sort of like seeing a hot Wenonah with straight shafts. What people don't know.......
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Bent vs. Straight Shaft Paddles—A Jacobson vs. Callan Debate
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
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Schuyler Thomson, retired wood/canvas canoe restorer extraordinaire . . . and the mentor of . . . (smile).
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Given how fast he was paddling, I'd have expected him to be going much faster than he appeared to be... was it the seemingly tiny blade that necessitated the faster stroke rate or just that bent shafts are for racers so "ya gotta really work it"? (I'm only about 1/2 kidding... I think I've only ever paddled that fast once in my life and that was a day when the wind was so bad that everyone else [being more sensible] stayed on shore)
I know he’s won several national whitewater championships in the 70’s and 80’s. Even done in a strip canoe… hard to imagine. Probably just his paddling style, although that paddle does look odd in that canoe!
Bob
Bob
Those Zavarel blades do seem small in comparison with most straight shaft wood paddles but the bent shaft and smaller surface area have been proven over decades of making canoes go fast, or far. But if you aren't trying to go as fast as you can, the smaller blade and bent shaft are still efficient. For whatever reason, Mr. Thomson was doing quick, shallow paddle strokes, not what you'd use typically. Almost like he wasn't really trying to get anywhere, just keeping the canoe going forward.
I use Zavarel bent shaft paddles when I'm (we're) wanting to get from point X to point Y; it's just more efficient, with less chance of aggravating repetitive motion injuries. And one of my favorite paddles for solo paddling is a Bending Branches Sunburst ST (straight carbon shaft/wood handle and blade) which has a surface area similar to the Zav's. It's light, nicely balanced, and easy on the shoulders and wrists. But if I'm out exploring in a sport solo (or quick water/whitewater) and want more boat control I'll use a traditional wooden paddle with more blade area.
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Bent vs straight … all I know is what works for me. I am comfortable paddling the guide stroke. I get tired of sit and switch. I can, like most, use a bent with a decent J … but a bent shaft just does not do it for me. I am most comfortable with a wood straight shaft with a little flex. I like “tail shaped blades”. I think I move along fine, but because I am almost always solo I guess it really does not matter. Paddling with a straight shaft made of wood is what makes me happy.
Bob.
Bob.
Me too.
What about when paddling tandem? Recently got a Penebscot 16 that I tend to paddle tandem with my younger sibling(s) in front. Any advice for bent vs straight based on position in canoe?
As someone who paddles nearly 100% of the time with a bent shaft my recommendation would be to use a straight shaft unless you already have good skills with it and like paddling a high cadence with a sit and switch style of paddling.
You can get a bent or a straight in lightweight layups so that's a wash.
Straight blades will give you better control and make it easier to learn control strokes.
I don't think a bent shaft really adds much benefit for most recreational paddlers (me included). I think the reason most of us like them is because the rule of thumb is to use a shorter bent shaft when compared to a straight. So people drop from a 60" straight to a 52" bent shaft and it feels so much lighter and easier. When in reality they'd probably get the same result by moving to a 52" straight shaft.
Alan
I prefer a 7 degree bent shaft but usually take a straight shaft too.
Best use for a bent shaft I have ever discovered. Threw a dirty double blade in later on in the night too. Satan appeared momentarily to punish me, but I beat him back to Hades with my trusty sassafras beavertail.
A couple things that Cliff said I don't understand. One is that you can paddle closer to your keel line with a bent. I can't see this as with a typically longer straight shaft I can angle the paddle so the blade goes under the boat closer to the keel line. I don't see how a bent can do it better.
The other is that he said you pull down with a bent but pull back with a straight. I don't get this either, my most efficient forward stroke with a straight shaft is all pull down and no pull back. I would have to say that depending on your stroke you may or may not get an advantage with a bent.
Here's two more reasons I prefer a straight shaft . One is that the indigenous people that brought us the birch bark canoe didn't use them. The other is that back in the 70's it was an insult to tell someone to "Get bent"
The other is that he said you pull down with a bent but pull back with a straight. I don't get this either, my most efficient forward stroke with a straight shaft is all pull down and no pull back. I would have to say that depending on your stroke you may or may not get an advantage with a bent.
Here's two more reasons I prefer a straight shaft . One is that the indigenous people that brought us the birch bark canoe didn't use them. The other is that back in the 70's it was an insult to tell someone to "Get bent"
Dang mem, at least save the shaft for a fire poker!!!!
It still is even if the target doesn’t get it. My dad would call people “gaping herders” in traffic. I call ‘em the mongrel hordes. Seems like all the bad drivers from NJ were exported to Florida! Dad was one of the fair to middlin’ ones.
It still is even if the target doesn’t get it. My dad would call people “gaping herders” in traffic. I call ‘em the mongrel hordes. Seems like all the bad drivers from NJ were exported to Florida! Dad was one of the fair to middlin’ ones.
I have a Spirit II with bucket seats and foot braces that I paddle sit-and-switch with a bent shaft. All my other boats have high bench seats, so I paddle them kneeling (or sitting) with a straight shaft. For me, the paddle depends how the boat is set up.
Yes, I pretty much owe everything I know about wood canvas canoes and working on them to Schuyler Thomson. Politics and choice of paddles, not so much.
Since I am a canoe racer, I use a carbon bent for that, and since much of my time on the water is spent in training for racing, I am almost always using a bent and or otherwise will have one with me. However, i do have a selection of well-made straight tail shaped thin blade wood paddles that I otherwise very much enjoy using, since they are much more efficient and enjoyable at many kinds of strokes and control that the bent cannot do without being rather awkward or impossible at it.
When racing, hit and switch is at the command of my stern paddler, as h&S power is necessary to be competitive in any canoe confuguration. However, when I am solo training, I like to stay paddling on one side for a very long time, until I get bored on that side and switch to give the other set of muscles some workout as well. Regardless of if I am using a bent or a straight paddle.
Try this, something that I learned during a canoe control practice lesson: Find a floating rectangular dock in calm no wind flat water. Using the paddle of your choice (a straight wood long tail of course), put yourself in the canoe holding it perpendicular to a side of the dock near one corner. Now, while holding the tip of your bow within two inches of the dock without touching the dock at any time, maneuver your perpendicular canoe along the dock side, then travel around the corner to the next side while still holding the 2-inch separation distance at all times. Do it in both directions. Next try it in a slight breeze or with a bent paddle. You will get a good lesson in the value of and how well a finely made straight wood paddle and some practiced skill can control your boat. As a final proof of why some of us always prefer the single blade canoe paddle, just try that lesson using a double blade kayak paddle. Naaaahhh
When racing, hit and switch is at the command of my stern paddler, as h&S power is necessary to be competitive in any canoe confuguration. However, when I am solo training, I like to stay paddling on one side for a very long time, until I get bored on that side and switch to give the other set of muscles some workout as well. Regardless of if I am using a bent or a straight paddle.
Try this, something that I learned during a canoe control practice lesson: Find a floating rectangular dock in calm no wind flat water. Using the paddle of your choice (a straight wood long tail of course), put yourself in the canoe holding it perpendicular to a side of the dock near one corner. Now, while holding the tip of your bow within two inches of the dock without touching the dock at any time, maneuver your perpendicular canoe along the dock side, then travel around the corner to the next side while still holding the 2-inch separation distance at all times. Do it in both directions. Next try it in a slight breeze or with a bent paddle. You will get a good lesson in the value of and how well a finely made straight wood paddle and some practiced skill can control your boat. As a final proof of why some of us always prefer the single blade canoe paddle, just try that lesson using a double blade kayak paddle. Naaaahhh
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Hoopleheads.
That one had me scratching my head too.
Love my carbon bent for cruising. I don't sit & switch though unless I need to sprint briefly or I'm fighting wind. I always have a bent and at least one straight with me unless it's two straights on whitewater. Ykndlr's nose around the dock exercise is fun, and it has onlookers perplexed.... which is part of the fun.
But poles rule.
I missed this CJ comment, which does sound strange, so I went back to reread it. Here's what CJ says:
"Even your precious J stroke is best done bent. Why? Because the bent blade runs partly under the canoe during the stroke, whereas a straight blade runs alongside. It is a canoeing axiom that the closer to the keel line you paddle, the less directional correction is needed."
He's talking here specifically about the J stroke. I think he means that as you twist your grip thumb down for the J, the bent blade will angle (or point) partly under the hull and not just alongside the hull like a straight blade. Hence, the bottom tip of the bent blade will be closer to the keel than the bottom tip of a straight blade upon completion of the J twist.
The problem I see with this argument is that once the J twist is completed, the paddle is no longer being drawn back to propel the canoe forward. So, I'm not sure that that being a bit closer to the keel during the short "J twist time" significantly affects the directional yaw of the forward stroke with a bent shaft paddle.
The positional angle of the bent shaft blade upon completion of the J twist does explain, however, why J correction is weaker with a bent than a straight paddle. After the J twist is completed, the paddler finishes off the J stroke by prying away from the canoe to make the correction. The angle of the bent blade, pointing partly under the hull, provides less surface area for the outward pry than the angle of the straight blade, which is more parallel to the hull.
But, contrary to a racer seeking every microscopic speed advantage, this is all sort of peanuts to a competent recreational paddler, who can propel and control a canoe just fine with either a bent or straight shaft paddle. Personally, I firmly prefer a short bent shaft for recreational forward paddling on flat water. There are several efficiencies in my experience.
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