One more newbie calling for help :)

[Serge from overseas]

Hello! I'm a complete newbie in some aspects, and here are a few of them: I recently moved to Canada (Ontario), fell in love with nature, and decided to celebrate my birthday at the end of October on an island in the Kawartha Lakes. I borrowed a paddle board from friends, packed my things in a huge backpack, and experienced the joys and challenges of paddling and portaging. After that, I understood that I need a canoe that can fit my wife, daughter, and our golden retriever. I bought a damaged canoe for repair almost for free because we don't have the money for a good canoe yet.

Please help me identify what kind of canoe I bought, whether it's worth dealing with, where to start with the repairs, and what should definitely be done after buying an old problematic canoe. My English is not as good, so reading forums quickly is a challenge for me, so I decided to ask you for advice. Also, I'm not familiar with the nuances of working with materials used for canoe repair. I'm a mechanic, used to working with metal objects, but here it's fiberglass, wood, varnishes, and paints... plus there are traditions and years of optimal solutions that I know nothing about. For example, I was very surprised when I saw in one of the discussions that someone simply bought a yoke on Amazon

In my canoe, the bow and stern floating parts are damaged, and one of the seats is missing. It's also likely that the attachments for the second seat are damaged. I decided that I would install new seats. Upon a quick inspection of the canoe hull, I didn't notice any cracks or other serious damage. Perhaps I didn't look for them well enough.

What materials would you recommend for the repair, what might I need? I'm not familiar with the brands available in stores, and your recommendations on choosing materials would be very helpful to me.

I'll also need to find and install a yoke and possibly another thwart for increased stiffness. But I'm not sure if it's worth complicating things and the canoe's structure with another thwart besides the yoke.

The gunwales are bent, it looks terribly messy. Is it worth trying to straighten the aluminum gunwales, or would it be easier to install new ones? If new ones, where can I even buy them? Also, I would like to repaint the canoe's sides outside and possibly inside. For this, the gunwales would have to be removed anyway. Is it worth buying new ones, or would it be easier to straighten and reinstall the old ones?

Thank you!!!

 

[Gamma1214]

Welcome to the forum. First and foremost:

...we don't have the money for a good canoe yet.

Any canoe that gets you and your family on the water safely is a "good canoe". You can (and probably will) upgrade later.

The fact that you're mechanically inclined should serve you well and you're in good company here as there are lots of wrench turners here.

As for repairs: I've never been successful straightening aluminum so I'd probably lean toward replacing the gunwales (I'd likely use wood but aluminum may be available through the manufacturer). Perhaps someone else can assist on this (and the hull ID number might help) but I thought Northwoods only made wood/canvas canoes... Is the torn label something other than "Northwoods"?

If you choose wood, you could pretty much use whatever you can easily (and cheaply) obtain but Poplar, Ash, Cherry and Spruce are all commonly used. Depending on what tools you have available, you may be able to cut them yourself or you might need to look for someone nearby that does custom millwork / cabinets. Maybe even check with a local school to see if the wood shop class might be able to assist.

I can't offer recommendations for seats, thwarts, etc. as I make my own but I'm hopeful that others will be along shortly with ideas.

Keep us informed of your progress and enjoy your new home. Canada has much to offer for those who love the outdoors.

 

[sailsman63]

Welcome to the site, Serge! And welcome to the sport!

I don't recognize this specific canoe, though I expect others to be along shortly. Some information that may help with the identification:

• Length - it looks about 16 feet? (488 cm)
• Beam (Width), both at the gunwale - which will only be approximate, due to the bent gunwales - and at the widest point.
• Depth, at both center and ends
• approximate weight, if you know it.
• Are there any builders markings or HIN (hull identification number) plates inside the hull? Check up under the endcaps, and the underside of the seat.

I agree that it doesn't look like there are major structural issues with the hull. (The one possible exception is the white line on the left sidewall in picture 4. I can't tell if this is just a marking, or glass fibers sticking up.) This canoe looks like it's a fairly heavy fiberglass construction, which can take a very large amount of punishment without being actually damaged. If you want to check for leaks, place the canoe on the ground upright and fill it with water. Have a plan for removing the water afterwards, as a canoe of that size can contain about a ton of water.

---

Regarding repairs, there are plenty of options for the long term. I would suggest a bare minimum to get paddling:

• That missing seat can be replaced by a piece of dimensional lumber - a 1x10 in #2 grade pine or whatever is cheapest locally will last for a season while you and your wife figure out how you like to use the canoe. Just bolt it to the existing seat mounts.
• Center Thwart likewise - bolt a couple of short sections of angle stock through the existing holes, and bolt a piece of cheap board to the angle stock. (channel stock or square tube would also work if that's easier for you to get.)
  • Don't worry about a yoke at this point unless you anticipate having to carry the canoe on your shoulders without assistance. A permanent yoke can be fitted once you decide what to do about the gunwales.

With these two repairs, you could be out paddling locally on the next nice day. It won't be the prettiest boat on the water, but it should function. You also might learn things that will affect how you address the long-term repairs.

 

[memaquay]

I would like to see more detailed pictures before passing advice on. The fracture in the bulkhead is strange. It should not affect structural integrity, but I'm wondering why it happened. The only thing I can think of is that it was stored upside down in the winter with water in in the bulk head and when ice expanded, it ruptured the bulkhead. If that were the case, the next question would be why was there water in the bulkhead?

It is difficult to tell, but it looks like the glass in the hull immediately down from the bulkhead is damaged as well? A quick, easy and cheap fix for the bulkhead would be to simply put tuck tape or high quality duct tape over the opening to keep water out of it. Some times those bulkheads have foam in them, and if water gets in the foam will absorb it, and the canoe will be very heavy

The exterior looks good, and generally speaking, the interior does not look that bad. Those old chopper canoes are fairly tough, and it should be worth fixing up. If you have any basic woodworking tools, even a jigsaw, you could fashion your own yoke. Wooden gunwales are fairly easy to make as well. However, if there are no cracks in the alumium gunwales, you could just keep them on and live with the unpleasant looks.

If you would care to post more detailed pictures, it would be easier to tell if it needs any immediate fiberglass work.

 

[Robin]

Welcome Serge, Congradulations on moving to Canada, a wise choice.

My English is not as good, so reading forums quickly is a challenge for me

No problem, I’ll type slowly.

I would remove those aluminum gunnels and replace them with wood. I have done it many times and it’s not that hard provided you have a few tools. I will link a video on how I do it. You can find wood at lumber yards, kijiji or Facebook Marketplace.
You might need a table saw or skill saw, a few clamps and a drill.
If you can find a shop near you that restores wood canvas canoes, (there are quiet a few in the Algonquin Park area), give them a call and ask if they have any old seat frames that you could buy, along with thwarts, or again, look on kijiji or Facebook marketplace. Some shops have lots of these and are willing to sell them at a reasonable cost. Have your measurements handy. There are many videos on YouTube on how to repair/restore a seat. I think webbing rather than cane would be suitable for your canoe.
I use an oil based paint on the inside of canoes, like a gray garage floor paint. I’m not sure what’s available in your area. I use Interlux polyurethane on the outside, but I think you might find cheaper alternatives in your area, like Rustolem or Tremclad.
Preparation is the key to a good paint job, sanding and dust free. I paint with a 6” foam roller, no more brushes.
I would patch those cracks with some fiberglass.
Here’s a video on how restored a couple of canoes, I made some gunnels from 1x6” by 10’ ash boards. You can find instructions on YouTube on how to make a quick jig to cut the 8-10” splices that you will need when you glue the 2 pieces together. I use Titebond III glue. I use a good spar varnish on all the wood, inside and out.

Here’s an old fiberglass canoe before and after.

 

[Chip]

Serge, welcome to the site. Hope you grow to love canoeing as much as most of us on this forum. Canoeing is fun and good for the spirit. I have some advice on your canoe, but will start with a story.

When I started to learn canoeing, I had an OT Camper canoe. The Camper had a very flat bottom and little rocker. I took a whitewater class, and I knew the Camper wasn't regarded as a whitewater canoe. So, I rented an OT Appalachian to use in the class. The Appalachian is a very different canoe than the Camper, having a shallow-arch bottom and lots of rocker. But, back then, I couldn't tell the difference. Today, I find that unbelievable, but I didn't have enough canoe experience and skill to be able to tell a difference. The point of this story is, don't worry about getting your boat perfect, because you probably won't be able to tell the difference.

I've seen a lot and paddled a few canoes with bent gunwales. IMO, the bends in your gunwales don't affect the shape of the hull at the waterline. For now, I wouldn't do anything with your gunwales. Just fix what you need to fix to get on the water. Most of us have moved on from our first canoes, and if you stay with canoeing, you probably will, too. Keep an eye out for opportunities to paddle other canoes, and do so as often as possible. That way, you can learn what you like among the many choices for canoe materials and hull shapes. If it turns out you love the canoe you have now, you can always replace the gunwales in the future. If it turns out you learn the present canoe isn't for you, you haven't needlessly invested time and money.

Some things you will need to fix: the rip in the float tank is a safety issue, so that needs fixing. A boat like you have usually has a center thwart and one more thwart. Thwarts are needed to stiffen the hull, and a carry thwart is very useful. I recommend installing a center, carry thwart, inexpensively available on-line from EdsCanoe.com. Check out their seats while you are there. You can use any material for the second thwart.

As other members suggest, wood gunwales are very nice. However, they do require maintenance. If you store your canoe outside, you need to do the maintenance more often. Metal and plastic gunwales are not as nice, but you get to spend more time paddling and less time maintaining. How do you want to spend your time?

Good luck with the boat and happy canoeing!

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Serge, welcome to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Also, please add your location to the Account Details page in your profile, which will cause it to show under your avatar, as this is a geographic sport. Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

You have gotten some repair ideas from others. To identify the manufacturer, look for a 12 character (letters and numbers) Hull Identification Number (HIN) stamped, printed or etched somewhere on the inside or outside of the hull, usually in the ends up near the gunwales. If you find the HIN, plug it into the following decoder, which will tell you the manufacturer and date of manufacture:

Free HIN number Decoder for any Boat, Hull, or Vessel - HINDecoder.com

What is your native country and language?

 

[scoutergriz]

Memequay- "The fracture in the bulkhead is strange. It should not affect structural integrity, but I'm wondering why it happened." I've seen similar ruptures in older boats with no vent plugs in the tank, especially if stored outside (but not that bad). I suspect it's caused by rapid expansion and contraction because it's on one of the spots where the tank is most rigid- picture taking an ice cold canoe with the air contracted inside the float tanks out of a late spring river and throwing it on a dark coloured vehicle or ashphalt in 75-80° weather- the air inside absorbs that heat and expands, putting pressure on any points too rigid to flex easily. eventually that contraction and expansion finds or creates a weak point and rips it open, most I've seen are where the tank joins the hull, but it HAS happened on the bend in the tank too if that bend isn reinforced with extra glass.
Serge- it's actually very easy to fix-make sure it's clean and dry inside, sand and cut away any rough stuff, and lay a few layers of s-glass over the crack, going a couple of inches past it in all directions. You can add some colour or graphite to the last layer of resin to match the existing colour, and you're fixed.
Next get a vent plug for each tank (most canoe shops have then), drill the appropriate sized holes, and pop them in (they have a bump on them to keep you from losing them), and pop them out when storing upside down or going from cold water to hot air, make sure to pop them back in before hitting the water

 

[Serge from overseas]

Thank you all so much! It was very important for me to receive all the advice from you. Some of them instilled confidence in me, some confirmed my suspicions, and some will be useful when choosing paints for the canoe.

If you choose wood, you could pretty much use whatever you can easily (and cheaply) obtain but Poplar, Ash, Cherry and Spruce are all commonly used.

Sounds good, these are more accessible and familiar materials for me than exotic species like cedar.

I don't recognize this specific canoe, though I expect others to be along shortly. Some information that may help with the identification:

For now, the canoe is under the roof of the warehouse where I work, and still waiting there while I finish the hoist with blocks to operate with canoe without someone else. I remember the length is 14'7", and I'll measure all the dimensions and will look for the ID later, probably next weekend.

It won't be the prettiest boat on the water, but it should function. You also might learn things that will affect how you address the long-term repairs.

I think this way is better for me for now, I want to open the season shortly, can't wait ))

If you have any basic woodworking tools

I have access to the table saw, the sander, compressed air, and clamps. So, I think I have enough to complete the repair, that's why I decided to buy this canoe.

If you can find a shop near you that restores wood canvas canoes, (there are quiet a few in the Algonquin Park area), give them a call and ask if they have any old seat frames that you could buy, along with thwarts, or again, look on kijiji or Facebook marketplace. Some shops have lots of these and are willing to sell them at a reasonable cost.

Thank you! One more good thing for me! The pictures "before/after" and the text on the video clarify a lot of situations for me.

Most of us have moved on from our first canoes, and if you stay with canoeing, you probably will, too

I have a little experience (just a few times) in paddling a kayak and had learned by paddling a sup board (paddle board), but I was dreaming about canoe as a general-purpose transport for a family, our dog, and some staff when we go camping. Last summer was my first summer in Canada. We have visited Marten River, Algonquin, Kawartha lakes, Rockwood, and a few other places where we certainly enjoyed paddling and fishing amidst the majestic nature of Canada. This year I plan to increase the quantity of our trips.

Free HIN number Decoder for any Boat, Hull, or Vessel - HINDecoder.com
What is your native country and language?

Thank you for the link!
I'm from Ukraine, so my native languages are Ukrainian and Russian. I can speak English, but not so good, maybe 3 of 5.

My longest water trip by backcountry campsite at Kawartha Lakes was at the end of last October. 4 hours and two portages, and 3 last hours and portages were in full night time under rain. I came to the access point too late but decided to go to my campsite. This picture explains how much I like nature adventures so I really would be much happier with a canoe

 

[Gamma1214]

I can speak English, but not so good, maybe 3 of 5

Seems like you're doing fine (and a helluva lot better than I can do in Russian or Ukrainian).

 

[Rippy]

Serge, welcome to CT site. While you wait to source wood for new gunnels it wouldn't hurt to try to take some of the kinks out of the old ones. Put a short block of wood, maybe a foot long, on the inside of the bend and use a C-clamp acrossed to pull the bend in some to straighten it out. If it works you could be on the water sooner. Good luck, Dave