Paddle sizing revisited.

[Idiot Savant]

I keep seeing photos of people with super long paddle shafts and they are gripping the shaft in about the middle.
Like the guy in the photo at the top of this page (I hope).

Canoe & Raft Traditional

Traditional canoe paddles feature straight blades and a traditional symmetrical palm grip.

wernerpaddles.com

I've read many, many articles on finding your correct paddle length and I have never seen one that recommends a super long shaft gripped in the middle, yet I see it all the time. I size my paddles so that when the blade is submerged to the throat, the top of the grip is at about eye level. I might add another four inches or so for white water, but not a foot or two and I don't grip the shaft 20 inches above the blade.
What's going on?

 

[lowangle al]

That guys paddle does look long but I don't think his lower hand is where it would be for normal paddling. There are many situations that you move your lower hand up to increase reach and leverage. I think this is common in free style paddling.

My perfect paddle length is about 57" or 58" but I use a 60" because I solo big boats on typically windy lakes. My spare is 72" and originally I brought it for standing but I also use it in a strong wind. I doubt the guy in the photo is using a very long paddle like the 72".

 

[Idiot Savant]

That guys paddle does look long but I don't think his lower hand is where it would be for normal paddling. There are many situations that you move your lower hand up to increase reach and leverage. I think this is common in free style paddling.

My perfect paddle length is about 57" or 58" but I use a 60" because I solo big boats on typically windy lakes. My spare is 72" and originally I brought it for standing but I also use it in a strong wind. I doubt the guy in the photo is using a very long paddle like the 72".

Wow! I'm over 6' and I use a 50" most of the time. I might move all the way up to a 56" if I'm expecting to encounter rapids. If I went strictly by what seems to be the consensus, on how to fit a paddle, I'd even go as short as a 48". I do have a short torso for my height.
Sure, if I'm doing a sweep stroke or a draw, I might move my hand up the shaft, but not that much and I wouldn't switch to a longer paddle just for that stroke.
I have an old canoeing handbook that says it's better to err on the short side because you are less likely to injure yourself. If your upper hand is over your head there is a greater chance of having a shoulder injury.
Olympic canoe sprinters kneel on one knee so I can't really go by what they do.
I might take a look at Olympic white water paddlers and see if their paddles look really long or they are holding them well up the shaft.
Interesting.

 

[Idiot Savant]

I'm not sure it makes sense to go by what Olympic paddlers do, maybe they sit deeper in the water or something, but here's a video.

Olympic canoe videos - Bing video

www.bing.com

I'm sure there are better videos out there, but this should work.
I'd say their paddles might be a little bit longer than what I'd normally use and they grip it maybe one or two hands higher than I might grip it but I don't see anything I'd consider outrageous about their paddle lengths or grip.

 

[lowangle al]

My paddles have 26" blades, that's probably most of the difference.

 

[Clint]

If in an aluminum or like a Min3 I use a 50"-51". If in a USCA C1 or C2 I'll use a 48"-49". All these are the ZRE Power Surge model paddles.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I keep seeing photos of people with super long paddle shafts and they are gripping the shaft in about the middle.
Like the guy in the photo at the top of this page (I hope).

Canoe & Raft Traditional

Traditional canoe paddles feature straight blades and a traditional symmetrical palm grip.

wernerpaddles.com

I've read many, many articles on finding your correct paddle length and I have never seen one that recommends a super long shaft gripped in the middle, yet I see it all the time. I size my paddles so that when the blade is submerged to the throat, the top of the grip is at about eye level. I might add another four inches or so for white water, but not a foot or two and I don't grip the shaft 20 inches above the blade.
What's going on?

While there are occasions to choke up the lower hand on the paddle shaft, such as to get more paddle extension for certain flat water freestyle turning maneuvers or for a sweep stroke, I agree the paddler in this photo has a paddle much longer than I would use for flatwater.



He seems to be in very shallow water so is likely trying to paddle with only a partially submerged blade. His choices to do that are to hold that paddle with his his grip hand high in the air or to angle the paddle outward. He also may be trying to do a sweep stroke turn at the same time. In any event, I wouldn't use a paddle that long.

At 5'-9", I use 59"-57" straight paddles in whitewater, 56"-54" straight paddles in flat water, and 52"-48.5" bent shaft paddles in flatwater—depending on how high above the water surface I am in different canoes or in different kneeling or seated positions in a canoe.

 

[Idiot Savant]

My paddles have 26" blades, that's probably most of the difference.

Here in the Rocky Mountain west and Colorado Plateau most of the paddling is in shallow, sometimes rocky, rivers, so we generally use short, wide blades. I have a couple Fishell paddles I'm waiting for an opportunity to use.
Even the mighty Colorado is pretty shallow. This year especially.

 

[lowangle al]

We’ll that explains the length difference.

What boat are you paddling and are you mostly solo or tandem? Are your Fishells tradition blades, and how long are they.

The guy in the photo is using what's called a "tall grass paddle." It's a specialized paddle designed so the tall grass doesn't tickle your fingers.

 

[Modified Ottertail]

I have a paddle sizing question. I am ordering a Fishell Ray's Special, and am not sure whether I should order a 61" or a 64". My torso—top-of-seat to bottom-of-chin—is 27". My current quiver of paddles are a 60" Fishell Modified Ottertail, both a Breaking Branches 54" Expedition Plus and 57" Beavertail. The Modified Ottertail and Beavertail have a 33" and 32" shaft length, which seems to fit well. The Fishell size chart suggests a 61" Special for my height (5'7"), but that's a shaft length of only 30.5". Should I size up to a 64" so that the shaft length is 32"?

 

[lowangle al]

I'm 5' 10" and I use a 60" traditional blade. The 57" would be a better fit, but I'm OK with the 60 because I like the extra leverage for paddling big boats on breezy lakes. My second (spare) paddle is longer at 66" or 72" for standing or extra windy conditions.

My gut feeling is don't go longer than 60". It's possible that you are not using the whole shaft of your longer paddles. I know I don't grip my 60" at the throat with my lower hand without conscious effort and it's not comfortable. I have also found that you can put more power in your stroke with less stress on the shaft when your hand is at the throat. In other words, the higher your lower hand is from the throat the greater the chance you will snap the shaft if you are pushing it.

 

[Cruiser]

Curious, looking at this thread ... almost all paddle size references are to total length, which as i understand it ... is basically meaningless once you start moving from paddle style to paddle style.

When I build paddles, i always size against the shaft length, which if I understand correctly will be more consistent, from a "fit" perspective.

So, when it comes to a paddle discussion, why does it always seem to default to total length ?

Brian

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

...when it comes to a paddle discussion, why does it always seem to default to total length ?

I always wondered that myself.

 

[lowangle al]

I think one reason is because most people when shopping or comparing paddles are looking at paddles with the same style/length blades. If you are looking at paddles with different length blades then shaft length also needs to be considered.

I just compared a traditional bladed 60" paddle that I currently use with a short wide bladed modern design 54" that I previously used and the shaft lengths were identical. So the math works.

 

[scratchypants]

I just got back from a trip with a new boat. I think the seat might be a bit high as I developed a hitch in my offside kidney/hip area. I think I was hunched over. This is to say that the boat you are paddling may also matter.

 

[Woodpuppy]

The critical dimension is shaft length, regardless of blade length. And the critical biometric is your torso length, but the part never discussed is where your backside is relative to the water line. This’ll be different in different boats, or in the same boat with different loads or in different seats/positions in the boat. The middle seat in my Polaris is high for kneeling, but it’s stable enough to sit on too. The paddle long enough to “fit” this situation is rather longer than needed when I sit in my Prism.

At 6’3” I’m built gangly with a short torso, but 35” inseam. A 66” Fishell Ray Special works for me, though my favorite bent shaft in the Prism is a 54”.

This pic illustrates the point. Shaft length between the 66” Fishell and the 62” Bruce Smith is basically the same:

 

[KeithPal]

I always wondered that myself.

From what we hear in the shop from customers, it seem that most folks who start out at canoe camps or with rentals seem to be told to "pick a paddle that comes to your chin" - those operations seem to have paddles with a single blade size, so it makes it easy and quick for them to find a paddle from the stack and get on the water.

Here's a graphic we post to make it easier for folks to see why it makes a difference...

 

[Idiot Savant]

We’ll that explains the length difference.

What boat are you paddling and are you mostly solo or tandem? Are your Fishells tradition blades, and how long are they.

The guy in the photo is using what's called a "tall grass paddle." It's a specialized paddle designed so the tall grass doesn't tickle your fingers.

I paddle both solo and tandem. I don't have a regular paddling partner, so have two solo canoes, but I also have three tandems and another on order. I need to get rid of some boats.
Some of that grass will do more than tickle. Good point.

 

[Idiot Savant]

The critical dimension is shaft length, regardless of blade length. And the critical biometric is your torso length, but the part never discussed is where your backside is relative to the water line. This’ll be different in different boats, or in the same boat with different loads or in different seats/positions in the boat. The middle seat in my Polaris is high for kneeling, but it’s stable enough to sit on too. The paddle long enough to “fit” this situation is rather longer than needed when I sit in my Prism.

At 6’3” I’m built gangly with a short torso, but 35” inseam. A 66” Fishell Ray Special works for me, though my favorite bent shaft in the Prism is a 54”.

This pic illustrates the point. Shaft length between the 66” Fishell and the 62” Bruce Smith is basically the same:

View attachment 132392

Exactly so.
Like I said, my preferred method is to submerge the blade to the throat and see how high the grip is. It should be around eye level. Obviously you need to be in a floating canoe, preferably one loaded the way you are going to paddle it.
That isn't always convenient, so I use a method where I sit on my cooler and measure rom the top of the cooler to my nose and add 3 or 4 inches. Not as good as the other method, but gets you in the ballpark.
Obviously my Fishell paddles are a lot longer than my ZRs.

 

[Idiot Savant]

I always wondered that myself.

It was just convenient for me to talk about the absurd length without going into the intricacies of paddle sizing.
Obviously my otter tails are longer than my sugar islands.
What I don't understand is why paddles aren't sold by shaft length. It would save me having to always look at the blade dimensions and doing some quick math before ordering.