Repairing a Coleman Ram-X 15

[Andrew504]

Hi Gang,

First time poster, but excited to be here and learn more about tripping. Already impressed with some of the length of these trips!

Posting today seeking advice for repairs of an old Coleman canoe. This was on my uncle's farm, and went unused for many years before he gifted it to me a few years ago. When he gave it to me, it had a small (fingernail) size crack in the bow. When it's not plugged, water definitely leaks in. Since then, I've filled it with caulk/silicone, and that more or less keeps the water out, but doesn't seem like a very trust repair.

I'm not sure of the material of the canoe, and not sure how to check. That's why I've included the label here. Google searches tell me it's a Ram-X 15.

Any advice on how to fix this patch in a more permanent manner? I don't know of any repair shops anywhere near here (New Orleans, Louisiana).

Right now, I have two canoes (the other one is a Mad River), and don't really use both. I'm looking at selling one and purchasing a kayak, or trading a canoe for a kayak. Figured before I did that, I should try to get it fixed.

 

[pblanc]

It is polyethylene. It is difficult to get epoxies and adhesives to bond to polyethylene because it is relatively inert chemically. G Flex epoxy, made by West System will work but only if you pretreat the material with flame oxidation, using an inexpensive propane hand-held torch. Instructions for how to do this are included with the G Flex.

Unfortunately, silicone often interferes with bonding of anything including G Flex. You may need to remove any hull material the silicone has come in contact with.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Can't ad anything to pblanc's strong experience with these repairs, but since you say you might not need both canoes, I'm curious to know what model Mad River you have and what kind of condition it's in. Just about any Mad River is higher quality canoe than a Coleman.

 

[Mason]

Maybe Ptex sticks for skis? Easy and cheap. Any ski shop will have them. Whoops--saw you were in Louisiana--maybe Amazon, then (not the river--even fewer ski shops there). https://www.amazon.com/s?k=p+tex+sk...FR49&sprefix=p+tex,aps,221&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_5

 

[stripperguy]

Polyethylene for sure, Ptex can be bought anywhere now that there's Amazon....
Any polyethylene can be used to heat weld that hull, six pack rings, old detergent bottles, etc.
There are tons of how to vids for ski bottom repairs, same techniques apply here.

 

[Andrew504]

Thanks all for the replies.

When I did that first repair, it was with a handheld torch, then I applied the silicon (pretty sure it was silicon). Actually searched my email, and this is what Coleman Customer Service had recommended:

You can then pick up some GE Silicone Seal from a local hardware store with which to seal the crack. Before applying the silicone you will need to flash the surface of the boat to allow the silicone to stick to the hull.

With a propane torch, using the area about one inch in front of the visible flame, brush the flame back and forth across the crack in the hull for about 15 seconds. This will force the surface oils in the hull down into the plastic. Let the hull cool and don't touch it while it cools, then fill the crack with the silicone and allow it to cure for about 24 hours.

You can also check with a local auto repair center. If they offer thermo-welding of plastic car bumpers and dashboards, they may be able to weld the crack closed with a thermo-welder that uses heated nitrogen gas. Be sure to tell them the hull is a high-density polyethylene.

ill watch some videos about ski repair and G Flex.

The Mad River is an Adventure 14. It’s way more stable than the Coleman, and I love the six cup holders, pockets, and draining gunwales.

My one gripe about it is the large center seat. When tripping, it’s more or less impossible to fit a large ice chest in there, and storing things needs to be done a particular way. It’s really just dead space.

I recently paddles the Buffalo River in a more “ope” canoe, and a Yeti-knockoff cooler that kept our stuff cold for 3 days. I can’t fit that type of cooler in the Mad River.

 

[scoutergriz]

the only surefire way I've seen to permanently repair a coleman is to flame the crack or hole, then while still hot, grab a milk jug and heat it until it catches fire, and let the flaming drips fall into the crack- the idea is to let the two plastics melt, mingle together and become one, then immediately blow out any flames, and press a suitably textured piece of lightly oiled plastic onto the surface to smooth it. DO NOT touch until completely cool. It'll be ugly as sin, but I've seen 30 year old patches that still hold (they do get fuzzy around the edge though)

 

[goonstroke]

This fellow made a valliant attempt to repair a similar Coleman with some JB Weld epoxy meant for plastic. It probably wouldn't be as flexible as gflex, but for a small hole that might be OK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW1b7b2NNP0

 

[pblanc]

If it is a small crack that really doesn't threaten the structural integrity of the boat, you could plug it up with just about anything including bubble gum, or just cover it up with Gorilla Tape.

Thermal welding works well for cracks. It has become the preferred method for repairing cracks in single layer polyethylene white water kayaks. It is also pretty easy to melt polyethylene and dribble it onto a cracked boat. But to get an actual weld of the repair material with the existing hull can be a bit trickier, and requires heating the hull just to the melting point so that it melds with the repair material. And if you have an actual gap or void resulting from missing hull material, repair with thermal welding is considerably more difficult. If you know of anyone in the area who has any experience with thermal welding, show the boat to them and see what they have to say. If you want to try it yourself, you can find some videos on youtube.

G Flex is relatively easy to work with, even for those who do not have prior experience using epoxies but you must follow the directions for surface prep exactly to get a good bond with polyethylene. For larger holes, G Flex can be used to wet out and bond repair fabrics such as fiberglass. I have repaired a half dozen polyethylene canoes and kayaks using G Flex, some requiring very extensive replacement of missing material.

 

[Andrew504]

Thanks for that video, and the advice, goonstroke. The crack in that video is a bit larger than mine (mine is the size of maybe a fingernail clipping that you let go too long), so there really isn't too much of a hole. I'll get this done in the next few weeks and report back.

 

[pblanc]

Regarding J B Weld:

I do have friends who have used the conventional J B Weld two-part epoxy for repairs of Royalex boats. But Royalex is very different from polyethylene, since the structural element is ABS, and it is a lot easier to get a decent bond to ABS.

If you go to the J B Weld website, you will find that their conventional epoxy is not recommended for use on polyethylene. J B Weld does make a "Plastic Bonder Structural Adhesive" which is a urethane type adhesive. That is what was used in that video. Unfortunately, they really don't seem to address the question as to whether this bonds well to high density polyethylene on their website.

This same product is sold on Amazon and you can go there if you like and check out the answered questions for the product. A common question is whether it will bond to PE. A number of answers come from people who have tried to use it on PE and it sounds as if the results are quite mixed. For some it seemed to work, and for others the bond failed.

Be aware that many products will seem to work temporarily, but if the bond is weak it will fail with sheer stress and flexing within a fairly short period of time. So unless the repair has held up under actual use for a reasonable period of time, take the results with a grain of salt.

 

[ppine]

You would be better off with a better boat. One with better shape, less beam and no keel. Old polyethylene is often compromised by UV exposure.