Wenonah and paddling technique

[yknpdlr]

If you're flailing, you're not doing it right (similar to "I can't make my canoe go straight"). Watch some marathon races on Youtube. Tripping, you just slow it down. There's no flailing in my boat.

I haven't found an aesthetically pleasing carbon straight shaft. Zaveral makes a carbon, and Wenonah has one on their site, but they don't hit it for me. A nice compromise might be Bending Branches' Sunburst ST, which has a carbon shaft and wood blade. A friend had one on a long Canada trip some years back, and it seemed pretty nice.

Ask Gene Newman at GRB. I bet he would make a straight carbon paddle if you ask.

Regarding flailing..... there should be lilttle to no thought about "gee, I wonder which stroke I should use next in this situation" You have a quiver of practiced strokes effective in various condiitons. You just do it without thinking about wich one. Like riding a bike.... when you see a pothole ahead, you do what it takes to maneuver around it without much thought on excactly how to move your hands and feet and body lean to do what is required.

 

[Odyssey]

In the book I am reading The Arctic Prairies by E.T. Seton the author describes and illustrates his 6 month journey by canoe into the Slave River region in 1907, observing flora, fauna and peoples.

It seems all aspects of life varied between FNs from diet and lifestyle to canoe design and paddling techniques. There have always been paddlers of differing skills and techniques.
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Literally “The more it changes, the more it’s the same thing.”

 

[Woodpuppy]

A question for those of you who paddle with the boat heeled to one side - do you practice both sides, or do you tend to just stick to one side? I like to develop ambidextrous skill and have been working on my different strokes from either side- but I also don’t heel the boat yet.

 

[yknpdlr]

Both sides, I tend to stay 20 minutes or so on each side then switch. Yes, you need to practice and develop equivalent paddle and boat handling skills on both sides.

 

[yellowcanoe]

A question for those of you who paddle with the boat heeled to one side - do you practice both sides, or do you tend to just stick to one side? I like to develop ambidextrous skill and have been working on my different strokes from either side- but I also don’t heel the boat yet.

If you are paddling a tandem canoe Canadian Style its impossible to reach over the far gunwale and paddle on the other side ie cross strokes. That is unless you have ape arms. You have to move your whole body over.

If you are in a dedicated solo underway you have a flat boat unless you heel it for maneuvering and yes you can paddle both sides either by switching or doing cross strokes. Doesn't matter if it is heeled or not..

 

[Woodpuppy]

If you are paddling a tandem canoe Canadian Style its impossible to reach over the far gunwale and paddle on the other side ie cross strokes. That is unless you have ape arms. You have to move your whole body over.

If you are in a dedicated solo underway you have a flat boat unless you heel it for maneuvering and yes you can paddle both sides either by switching or doing cross strokes. Doesn't matter if it is heeled or not..

Right; but for the Canadian style, do practitioners typically develop their skill only on one side? Does anybody kneel in the left chine and paddle on the left?

 

[PaddlingPitt]

Right; but for the Canadian style, do practitioners typically develop their skill only on one side? Does anybody kneel in the left chine and paddle on the left?

I am not an elite paddler, but am reasonably competent. I spent a fair amount of time practicing paddling on both my right and left sides. When paddling tandem in the stern, I prefer the pitch stroke, with an occasional j thrown in. I use the Canadian stroke less often. I paddle sitting on calmer water. Kneeling in more challenging whitewater. Right or left. Makes no difference to me. When paddling solo, in Class III, I am more comfortable on my right side. As yellowcanoe suggested, when paddling solo whitewater, I paddle both sides by switching or doing cross strokes.

I don’t know if this addresses your question or not.

 

[memaquay]

I don't think anyone is advocating only ever paddling on one side, as there is a collection of cross strokes to be used. However, some of us have a definite preference for one side. I prefer the left. If I have a bow paddler who absolutely can't paddle on the right, I will switch to right, but I don't like it.

When I'm in the bow, which is not often enough, I paddle either side equally well. I dunno why I don't like it in the rear (oops, maybe that's a bad choice of words).

 

[yellowcanoe]

I don't think anyone is advocating only ever paddling on one side, as there is a collection of cross strokes to be used. However, some of us have a definite preference for one side. I prefer the left. If I have a bow paddler who absolutely can't paddle on the right, I will switch to right, but I don't like it.

When I'm in the bow, which is not often enough, I paddle either side equally well. I dunno why I don't like it in the rear (oops, maybe that's a bad choice of words).

the visual in the mind is compelling.. re that kind of paddling. I paddled three miles today.. In the ocean.. I am whupped. .Shamefully on getting out I fell in the mud.. I needed my cane...er paddle to get up.

 

[pblanc]

A question for those of you who paddle with the boat heeled to one side - do you practice both sides, or do you tend to just stick to one side? I like to develop ambidextrous skill and have been working on my different strokes from either side- but I also don’t heel the boat yet.

I often paddle whitewater solo canoes on Class I water. Of course, these highly rockered canoes turn very readily and must be made to go where you want them to go. When I want to make progress in this type of boat I will often paddle "hit and switch" (I am usually kneeling) using a bent shaft paddle. But I heel the canoe toward the side my paddle is on and alternate sides. Maintaining some momentum while heeling the boat allows the hull to carve an arc of very long radius which minimizes the number of "switches" required. I have found this to often be the most efficient way to make miles on moving flat water sections and pools.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

A question for those of you who paddle with the boat heeled to one side - do you practice both sides, or do you tend to just stick to one side? I like to develop ambidextrous skill and have been working on my different strokes from either side- but I also don’t heel the boat yet.

I'll make some general observations, to which there are always exceptions, based upon my own experience.

Generally, I think it makes eminent sense for both whitewater and flatwater paddlers to become equally proficient paddling both lefty and righty when using correction strokes, as opposed to hit & switch. However, my experience is that most correction stroke paddlers are are mostly "one-sided". I have tried to become as correction stroke proficient lefty as I am naturally righty, but I'd say I'm only about 70% as effective lefty. That is an important skill, however, especially when paddling on the left (downwind) side becomes necessary because of wind conditions.

I don't paddle much heeled in narrow solo canoes except to turn. An exception is the technique that pblanc was just discussing above. You can paddle "straight" without a correction stroke for long periods on one side if you use what Charlie Wilson calls the inside circle forward stroke, which is actually a very wide diameter carving arc induced by slightly heeling the hull.

As to paddling tandem canoes heeled, my observation is that most such paddlers (including me) stick to one side, although there is no reason one could not train oneself to shift to the other chine and paddle on the other side.

 

[Woodpuppy]

I don't paddle much heeled in narrow solo canoes except to turn. An exception is the technique that pblanc was just discussing above. You can paddle "straight" without a correction stroke for long periods on one side if you use what Charlie Wilson calls the inside circle forward stroke, which is actually a very wide diameter carving arc induced by slightly heeling the hull.

I need to see a picture of that!

As to paddling tandem canoes heeled, my observation is that most such paddlers (including me) stick to one side, although there is no reason one could not train oneself to shift to the other chine and paddle on the other side.

Thanks, this is what I’ve been wondering. In the vast majority of videos I’ve seen on this style the paddlers are always on their right.

 

[lowangle al]

I don't paddle much heeled in narrow solo canoes except to turn. An exception is the technique that pblanc was just discussing above. You can paddle "straight" without a correction stroke for long periods on one side if you use what Charlie Wilson calls the inside circle forward stroke, which is actually a very wide diameter carving arc induced by slightly heeling the hull.

I don't know what an inside circle forward stroke is, but it sounds like a correction stroke to me.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I don't paddle much heeled in narrow solo canoes except to turn. An exception is the technique that pblanc was just discussing above. You can paddle "straight" without a correction stroke for long periods on one side if you use what Charlie Wilson calls the inside circle forward stroke, which is actually a very wide diameter carving arc induced by slightly heeling the hull.

I need to see a picture of that!

It's a fairly sophisticated stroke and hard to describe. I don't know if there are any videos of the inside circle forward stroke—or the "carve balancing stroke," as I call it.

Let me try to describe it this way.

Suppose you, a righty paddler, are gliding in a flatwater canoe perfectly straight on flatwater with some velocity. If you then heel the canoe to your off- (left) side, the canoe will start to turn ("carve") to your on- (right, paddle) side. This is because there is now a water pressure differential at the bow: there is more water pressure on the left bow than the right bow, pushing the canoe to the right, your paddle side. You can counterbalance this rightward carving tendency with an uncorrected forward stroke on your right.

If you do this with just the right amount of paddle force, you can almost perfectly balance the bow's tendency to keep sidewashing the canoe to the right with your uncorrected forward stroke's tendency to push turn the canoe to the left. You can carry this on for a long time. You won't be going exactly straight, but carving a very wide radius arc slowly to the right. Periodically, you can unheel the canoe and intentionally overpower the carving arc with a really strong paddle stroke to get the canoe more oriented leftward to your course destination. Then, you can start the carve balancing stroke sequence again by juicing another carve to the right with a heel and a cross-forward stroke.

Depending on hull shape, some canoes will carve better with an on-side heel instead of an off-side heel. It takes experimentation and a lot of practice.

You can begin the stroke from a dead stop by heeling the canoe for its best carving tendency and then start propelling with a few cross-forward strokes. This will start the canoe carving toward your paddling side, at which point you can switch to your counterbalancing forward strokes.

 

[Woodpuppy]

Interesting, thanks for the explanation.

 

[lowangle al]

In my book if you can't put 100% power to a stroke there is a component of correction in there.

As far as carving and lean go, I found that where you are seated in the boat makes a difference. When seated in a center position the boat may carve away from the side you are leaning towards, but that same boat will carve towards the side you are leaning on if you are in the bow seat paddling backwards or especially noticeable from the stern seat. This tendency is one of the reasons I like to paddle from the stern. I get the most carve towards the paddle side and the most help from a breeze to minimize correction. I don't get enough correction from the carve alone to put maximum power to the paddle, but add in the wind and I can come close. So I can either regulate how much power I use and paddle on one side w/o corrections or put more power to it and only change sides when the bow crosses the wind direction changing the downwind side of the hull.

 

[yknpdlr]

I have often heard Charlie explain it to me and others in terms of the canoe presenting the shape of a banana to the water, and depending on the actual canoe design and the heel, it carves the turn for you.

 

[pblanc]

Whitewater canoes or boats with a blunt "bottle nose" water entry tend to behave differently than boats with a sharp prow water entry. Modern solo whitewater canoeing technique has evolved to what is often called a "cab forward" technique using strokes (forward and cross forward) in the bow on-side and off-side quadrants as exclusively as possible. This technique requires paddling in arcs of various radii utilizing hull carving to be efficient.

In whitewater boats are most often heeled toward the paddling side, although there are exceptions. A lot of whitewater hulls, both kayak and canoe, have evolved toward rather flat hull bottoms with sharper chines. Those sharper chines can be used to facilitate hull carving and also for maintaining directional stability for ferries in strong current. Paddling in arcs works very well for whitewater paddling since you want to follow a curved path at least as often, if not more often than a straight path.

Lets say you want to paddle an inside circle on your on-side. If your strong paddling side is on the right side of the canoe you first develop some forward momentum which can be done using some combination of forward and cross-forward strokes. You then initiate a carve toward your onside with some sort of stroke. This could be a strong cross-forward, a C stroke, or a stern pry, or a strong J stroke. Simultaneously, you heel the boat toward your on-side. Because you have forward momentum an asymmetrical bow wave builds up that puts greater frontal resistance on the outside of the arc, in this case the port bow. That tends to resist the tendency of the canoe from turning toward your off-side as you take forward strokes on the inside of the circle.

Once you have the boat carving a circle (actually an arc) you can adjust the radius of that circle, either tightening the turn or straightening it by adjusting four different elements of your paddling technique. These include stroke cadence, stroke position (forward and aft) and stroke excursion, paddle shaft angle more or less vertical (with the paddle blade closer or a bit farther from the boat), and the degree of heel. Each of these elements can be adjusted individually or simultaneously.

Of course, it is also possible to carve circles on the off-side using cross forward strokes.

Andrew Westwood, who loves acronyms, has called this the "2x4" technique". Following is a short description of this technique. I object rather strenuously to the notion that Andrew "developed" this technique since Charlie Wilson described the same thing many years earlier and Tom Foster based his entire whitewater OC-1 and C-1 instructional curriculum on it.

CARVING USING THE INSIDE CIRCLE : The 2 X 4 Forward Stroke Technique – Developed by Andrew Westwood – Westwood Outdoors

westwoodoutdoors.ca

 

[pblanc]

I need to see a picture of that!

Thanks, this is what I’ve been wondering. In the vast majority of videos I’ve seen on this style the paddlers are always on their right.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I object rather strenuously to the notion that Andrew "developed" this technique since Charlie Wilson described the same thing many years earlier and Tom Foster based his entire whitewater OC-1 and C-1 instructional curriculum on it.

Agree that Westwood didn't develop this stroke technique.

I don't know when Foster started teaching this for whitewater, but John Berry showed me how to control his ME, a real banana canoe, with a carve balancing stroke in 1983, and I'm sure he'd been using it for decades in his open and closed canoes. He called it something like "generating a bow sidewash."

Charlie Wilson taught courses on the inside circle (carve balancing) forward stroke at flat water freestyle symposia in the 2000's. Don't know about his instructionals before that, but I'm sure he knew the stroke much earlier. It naturally comes to many paddlers who experiment with heeling and bow stroking dedicated solo canoes from a central seating position, which allows the most efficient use of on-side and off-side bow quarter strokes.

In a flat water touring canoe, you will not have the dramatic turning effects you see from the highly rockered whitewater canoes in the video, which is quite good except for the confusing (to me) terminology. In all four of my solo flat water canoes, I get a better carve by heeling to the outside of the turn, rather than the inside as with a highly rockered whitewater hull—although I can get a decent inside carve in my composite Wildfire.