Stain or ? Over Spar Urethane?

[mwaalen]

Purchased my second set of Ed's Canoe contoured seats. The fist set (first photo) was installed a few years back on a different boat and at that time they spot-on matched the finish from a photo. Now they offer only clear satin spar urethane and can only get black webbing. Still love the seats regardless.

Looking for advice on what to use over the spar urethane to get a closer color match. (second photo). Not looking for anything perfect but a bit darker would be nice. Granted I will only be able to refinish the "arms" of the seat but...."meh".

Thanxsomuch!

 

[Alan Gage]

Age will probably do it. That's probably what those seats looked like when they were new. You could leave them out in the sun for a few weeks and see how much they darken.

Maybe a gel stain but that will partially cover the grain.

Best bet, if it bothers you that much, is probably so sand it back to bare wood. Or maybe you can order seats with no finish applied.

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Or maybe you can order seats with no finish applied.

They probably don't want to stock different stains and web colors. If you bought and sent Ed's the right color stain and webbing, maybe they would be willing to make a custom seat if you don't want to do it yourself with a bare wood frame from them.

 

[mwaalen]

Maybe a gel stain but that will partially cover the grain.

Sounds good to me as not really caring about the grain. It just looks to me like they came from IKEA and could use a bit of patina. No disrespect intended to Ed's as they are wonderful.

maybe they would be willing to make a custom seat

I bet they would but was rushing this order through as the plan a few weeks ago was to be on a trip May 17th. That's not happening however as work happens.

Just now realized I could've ordered them in Cherry...Was in too much of a rush I guess.

Micah

 

[Boatman53]

Just stain over a finish doesn’t hold up but I have mixed stain into the varnish to make things a closer match. Just make sure the stain and varnish are compatible ie not water base and oiled base products.
Jim

 

[ppine]

Nearly all of the seats made by various companies are white ash. Spar varnish over white ash is going to be the standard application. They will look similar especially after some sun exposure.

 

[mwaalen]

Just make sure the stain and varnish are compatible ie not water base and oiled base products.

Copy that. I've always been under the impression oil will go over h20 but not vise versa. However the last time I went into ACE hardware for a project the paint lady told me the complete opposite. We battled egos for a few minutes while I searched the all-knowing google and found reason to believe both schools of thought.

Spar varnish over white ash is going to be the standard application

Are spar varnish and spar urethane the same animal? Sorry but my brain melts when discussing wood finishes.

 

[Boatman53]

Simple answer is no they are not the same.
Jim

 

[Alan Gage]

Simple answer is no they are not the same.
Jim

But the complicated answer is that many people use the terms interchangeably (me included at times, even though I know better).

Alan

 

[ppine]

Canoeing is a traditional sport so I use varnish. Use a product with good UV resistance.

 

[Smokey]

Purchased my second set of Ed's Canoe contoured seats. The fist set (first photo) was installed a few years back on a different boat and at that time they spot-on matched the finish from a photo. Now they offer only clear satin spar urethane and can only get black webbing. Still love the seats regardless.

Looking for advice on what to use over the spar urethane to get a closer color match. (second photo). Not looking for anything perfect but a bit darker would be nice. Granted I will only be able to refinish the "arms" of the seat but...."meh".

Thanxsomuch!

View attachment 141127

View attachment 141128

In my limited experience, the varnished seats will never match the gunwales if they are oiled. When the varnish ages it will match more closely but never be exact

 

[ppine]

What is the big deal with "an exact match?"
Wood gunwales, seats and thwarts just need to be compatible.
The kitchen in my house is a good example. It has the original oak cabinets, and stained and varnished Douglas fir doors. I added a black walnut slab to cover the island and one of the counters is white ash butcher block. It is much more interesting that if it all "matched."

 

[mwaalen]

Q:

What is the big deal with "an exact match?"

A:

Not looking for anything perfect but a bit darker would be nice.

When it comes to finish compatibility/functionality, for my purpose I believe I can boil it down to the following...A urethane coating (be it oil or water based) is like a hard plastic-like shell; best/good for wood that does not flex like these seat frames. Obviously oils & stains penetrate the wood & easier to top coat and re-coat. Good for wood that flexes. I now know a Spar is a boat mast of sorts so I would imagine a spar urethane or spar varnish flexes a bit?? Still trying to figure out if Minwax Gel stain is water based or not. Have a jar in my hands and it speaks nowhere to this on the front of the can. Will need to taste it.

This weekend I hope to tackle this by some path TBD. Possibly using a bit of Liquid Sandpaper to break down the urethane a bit.

 

[Gamma1214]

Still trying to figure out if Minwax Gel stain is water based or not

Best indicator there might be to check the clean-up instructions. Soap & water clean-up = water based.

 

[Alan Gage]

I now know a Spar is a boat mast of sorts so I would imagine a spar urethane or spar varnish flexes a bit??

It also has UV inhibitors.

Alan

 

[Boatman53]

Spar varnish is flexible, because boy do some spars flex.
Jim, who has stripped and varnished many spars and other boat things.

 

[mwaalen]

Best indicator there might be to check the clean-up instructions. Soap & water clean-up = water based.

Just read the entire can and no mention of water or oil or clean-up instructions. However due to all the health and flammability hazards no doubt it is oil based or possibly a volatile uranium isotope. Truth be told my fingerprints are all over the can and it took me the entire day to recall what it was used for and....yep...did not clean up with water.

 

[Gamma1214]

...or possibly a volatile uranium isotope.

Might be unobtainium based. I might have to get a can myself as I've got a couple of projects that require unobtainium.

 

[scoutergriz]

the main difference between traditional spar varnish and urethane spar varnish is that spar varnish contains linseed oil, solvent, and an alkyd resin, where urethane replaces that oil with a polymer plastic which may or may not be water-soluble.
Traditional varnish is made flexible by increasing the ratio of oil, urethane varnish is made more flexible by using a different formulation of the actual polymer.
Neither like to bond with a surface stain well because by the very nature of varnish, it fills in the pores of the wood that are necessary for the stain to be absorbed, with either finish the only long term solution is to completely remove the finish and stain them or leave them untreated to age on their own, then reapply the finish.

 

[memaquay]

Sanding it to bare wood is the way to go. As for matching trim, I'll usually use whatever wood is available, mixing and not matching, but on one canoe I stained all the trim (seats, decks, gunwales, thwarts, yoke) the same, and it looked really sharp. On my last canoe, all the trim was cherry, and it looked very nice too, so I get the desire to match everything.