Web Seat Comfort

[Black_Fly]

The Swiftie P14 has the most uncomfortable web seat I’ve ever used. The contour doesn’t help comfort, may actually compound discomfort. Always sitting on the wood, fighting to stay over the webbing. No cushion I own relieves the soreness. Can it possibly be the way it’s mounted (not suspended from gunnels)? The wood frame is thicker than most seats I’ve seen, and it’s laminate. I’m seriously considering changing the seat to a conventional web seat, although the mounts are unfamiliar, don’t know how to really attach to them. Looks like screws into the composite mounts.

I’ve cannibalized a couple old seats for padding to no avail. Still painful. The setback of the Backsaver backrest is definitely a contributing factor. Although the same backrest attached to the NS canoe seat doesn’t produce the sore bum like the Swift seat. I think the wider, thicker, more rigid wood frame, mounted on top of ungiving bases is the culprit. Suggestions welcome.

 

[jdeerfoot]

I think this is kind of an old guy problem. In my case it seems the padding I used to sit on now obstructs the view of my navel. And I am still trying reconcile my apparent need for suspenders.

 

[Black_Fly]

I think this is kind of an old guy problem. In my case it seems the padding I used to sit on now obstructs the view of my navel. And I am still trying reconcile my apparent need for suspenders.

Certainly a factor. I will ask the young guy who tripped through WCPP in this canoe whether it hurt his bum.

 

[zekabl]

BF, All of the seats in the 3 Swift boats I demo'd were exactly like what you described. It was like I was sitting on just a wood frame no webbing. Is the webbing not tight enough?

 

[Alan Gage]

What part of the bum does it hurt?

I've never used this style of seat with a backrest but I can see where it could cause discomfort by putting more pressure on the tail bone if leaning back. I'd guess this style of seat is most comfortable with good posture and maybe leaning slightly forward.

I wouldn't expect a difference between mounting styles (hung from rails vs. cleats) to cause a comfort difference.

Often the front edge of the seat is slightly lower than the rear for comfort. Maybe you can place some shims under the rear supports to accomplish this and see how it does.

I personally find bucket seats to be the most comfortable but I'm apparently in the minority in that regard.

Alan

 

[Mason]

I use a Thermarest seat cushion (linked in prior discussion) for the web seats in my PakCanoe. It makes a big difference for primarily sitting. Adjusting the air pressure makes a big difference. It saved me from sciatica on the last trip--a couple of puffs and it went away.

 

[M Clemens]

Just wondering how you were able to mount the Backsaver to the curved rear of the Swift seat?

 

[Black_Fly]

Here you can see both long seat frame members are tilted away from the center, so you’re riding on the corner.

In the 2nd photo, you see the mounting. I’m wondering how these bolts/screws attach to the Kevlar mount, whether I can replicate the connection.

 

[Black_Fly]

Alan,
Hurts the butt bones and the softer inner carriage.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'd assume there are threaded inserts inset into the mounts. The angled ones would be tricky. Are the supports bars on the seat the same distance apart so you can use the existing holes?

I'd start with the back ones. Cut the head off a bolt, sharpen it, and thread it into the hole so the pokey point is a little proud. Set the seat in place and then press downwards to make an imprint. This will show you where to drill your hole so they line up.

Being able to fasten the rear in place will:

A: Allow you to paddle it as-is and see if the comfort is any better
B: Hold the seat in place while you figure out how to line up and drill for the front holes.

If the front seat cross bars line up with the factory holes then I'd probably bevel the leading edge to match the angle and do my darndest to drill an accurate hole at the correct angle in the correct location.

If the front cross bars don't line up then I'd be scratching my head for some other solution.

You can buy kits for installing threaded inserts but I don't know if they'll work in this application. There needs to be a minimum wall thickness or they won't cinch down properly.


Alan

 

[Black_Fly]

I can use the back holes. I’d need to attach the front of the NS seat as it’s narrower. I think you’re right, this may be too risky and I want to use the canoe.

So Swift is sending the last Deluxe Seat Cushion with Straps on the planet. Perhaps this seat was discontinued for the experienced reasons. I’ll try it and maybe use it with the closed cell foam underneath if it won’t do the trick alone (which it probably won’t).

 

[M Clemens]

I had this problem with the last two Ed's contoured cane seats I bought (digging into my fleshy parts), largely because the cane was not stretched tight enough. Pity there's no pressure/deflection test to check web and cane tightness as there is for mattresses. The seat on my Swift Kee14 has given me no issues.

 

[kahel]

@Black_Fly

Here is my suggestion:

take all the webbing off the seat.

what if you put the struts further out?
so you have no more corner that you can reach when sitting on the side?



Then round off the front, hard edge of the cross strut. (marked blue in the picture) so that it is nice and smooth.
Then work in a new webbing braid with narrower webbing - done.

You can determine the appropriate tension of the webbing yourself



regards
Michael

 

[Black_Fly]

Had to look. I took the seat off and the threaded inserts are in beefy portions of the mount. Between the inserts it’s flimsy. Alan was correct. No way to easily hang a new seat with this trim.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I’m seriously considering changing the seat to a conventional web seat

That may be a reasonable option if you don't like a sitting bucket seat. The Swift seats and Conk seats with down curved front rails are really optimized for kneeling. The down angle may not be comfortable for a sitter because your weight might be too much on the front rail or back rail, depending on how far fore or aft you sit on the seat.

A flat seat with tight webbing may be more comfortable because your weight should be more spread out evenly on the sitting area—whether or not you use a cushion on top of the flat seat.

 

[scoutergriz]

All but one of my boats have had the Swifty contoured seats and I have no problem with them, but mine definitely look more rounded than that front rail, the curved front also looks less canted, maybe you got a bad or warped one? Mine are also tilted slightly forward with the back of the seat elevated about 1/2-3/4"
As for them being for kneeling, my chronic sciatica and inability to kneel was the reason I went to them because they stopped the front rail from digging into my upper thighs.
Too bad you don't live in Ontario- Bill Swift junior is well known for working with buyers to fix their issues, he's helped me a few times. But of course you'd have to get yourself and the boat to Gravenhurst.

 

[memaquay]

That webbing is too wide in my opinion. Narrow webbing stretched tight will provide a firmer seat. I'm a sitter, and not a fan of a downward front angle. I like my seats mostly level, with a very slight downward angle at the front.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Boy that seat looks pretty comfy to my !
I'd try a piece of Waffle foam. Like the Thermorest sleeping pads.

Next a Nate stick. My youngest son came up with the idea.
Place a thin flat, or slightly curved piece of wood under your legs, on top of the gunnels.
I have one strapped to my inwhale all the time.
Don't believe me ! Try it with a stick ! See if it doesn't relieve back pain.

Here you can see how I place mine.

Jim

 

[ppine]

For longer trips I have used a Crazy Creek chair over the webbing. It adds some cushion and back support.

 

[M Clemens]

I've never used this style of seat with a backrest but I can see where it could cause discomfort by putting more pressure on the tail bone if leaning back. I'd guess this style of seat is most comfortable with good posture and maybe leaning slightly forward.

Alan

The curvature on the rear member of the Swift seat provided a bit of a challenge when mounting my Back-Saver. A couple of fabricated wedges prevented any twisting of the Back-Saver uprights.

To be honest, I was a bit hesitant installing one with Swift's side-pod seat mounts, as I wondered if they had accounted for the re-direction of forces on the system when using a seat back, especially the further back you recline. Fortunately, I use mine straight-up to maintain posture and alleviate back pain.