What would you have done?

[lowangle al]

After a long day of paddling and portaging (10 or 11 hours) my nephew and I arrived at a campsite as it was getting dark. I was setting up the tent and he was building a fire. The tent site and fire ring for this site are in the open between the trees and the river. He went into the woods to find more wood and returned to inform me that there was a tent and gear set up in the trees. I assumed that it was someone who planned to return another day so figured it was no big deal. As it got darker we noticed a glow stick hanging from a bush by the landing and realized that someone was planning on returning that evening. We talked about packing up and moving on but there are not a lot of sites on the river and we decided to stay.


We had a big fire going hoping to share it with whoever was coming, when a canoe (probably a Coleman) with a guy and his two young sons showed up after a day of moose hunting. Well the guy was really pissed off and was yelling at us taking their spot and about our fire because he and his boys went without one for there entire trip so they wouldn't scare the moose.


I felt pretty bad about things, but by this time it was out of the question to move. Over the years I have had people come to my site asking if I minded if they shared the site with me and it was no big deal.


What would you have done and is it normal to not build a fire on a hunting trip? I always felt sorry for the boys, camped in the buggy darkness with no fire.

 

[Grandpa Paddler]

Just my 2 cents: evidently he set up out of sight of the designated camp site and the probability is if his camp had been visible, you would have moved on, right? His problem not yours!!!


If the location was apparently remote, why did he use a Coleman brick to get there and how did he expect to get back with 3 people, camping gear and a dead moose?


I've camped in moose country with evening fires and still seen moose within shooting range during the day, but then I'm not a hunter so what do I know? Most of my canoe trips are on rivers and I try to avoid paddling after dark even with an experienced adult partner and under a clear sky with a full moon. With 2 young boys? A glow stick? I'd hate to rely on that to find my site. I probably would have offerered a simple apology and then ignored his anger. No point in letting him spoil your evening.

Guess this turned into a nickel's worth - oh well.

Jon

 

[Jim Dodd]

I'd just chalk it up to an unfortunate circumstance !

It is common not to have a fire while hunting. We do the same here in Iowa, when hunting Whitetails.

It was late and the guy was probably tired. Moose hunting all day with two kids can be stressful. You provided an outlet for it.
Just know that he vented at you and not his kids ! Kind of a "Scape Goat"

It just happened !

 

[Iskweo]

If I was not too far into setting up I would probably have just moved when I first found the other tent.

 

[Canotrouge]

Life... I would have stayed and I would have apologize. As for the fire, i hunt moose every year, and we do have fire to cook on and a wood stove in the tent( can get pretty cold up here in late september and october). Fire doesn't determine you being successful moose hunting. like keeping a quite camp... makes no difference! Moose are not whitetail deer!!
If it late, that there is no site close by, and they didn't make it obvious they were there, then you stay and no big deal!
But I guess other might think differently!

 

[Chip]

Canoeing parties almost universally like to have their own site. However, when it is late or the weather goes bad, sometimes it is just gracious to share the site.

Don't know the particulars about where you were, but many wilderness sites provide no guarantee that you will have exclusive use of a site. Sure, if there are other sites nearby, you might acquiesce and move on. But if it is late or there is a big storm, nobody should expect you to move.

If the guy is so hidden away that you didn't notice somebody is camped at the site until you are substantially set up, he sort of brought it on himself and should understand mistakes happen.

I'm not a hunter, but can tell you that on two occasions we've been awakened in the morning by moose wading and feeding in the river right next to camp. Our fire from the previous night was probably still smoldering. The moose didn't seem to mind. Have also had them come around a house heated by woodstove, but that's a different deal. For hunting, do you think it is the fire itself, or the smell of smoke on their outfit that hunters need to avoid?

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

Fire doesn't determine you being successful moose hunting. like keeping a quite camp... makes no difference! Moose are not whitetail deer!!

I agree. This sounds more like an Indian war party on the move.

 

[memaquay]

I call BS as well on the fire-moose hunting thing. The guy should have been more graceful, sounds like you just met an arsehole.

 

[Marten]

I call BS as well on the fire-moose hunting thing. The guy should have been more graceful, sounds like you just met an arsehole.

If you had moved on down that river you may have really messed with his hunt at the worst time. Do not take it too personally. Too bad all the kids had to experience the scene and ruin what could have been.

 

[Odyssey]

I probably would've moved camp the moment I saw the tent hidden in the woods. I'm not antisocial, but prefer to have my own space whenever possible. However, if it were near dark I would've had second thoughts about it. Sharing a site is no big deal. I've offered up space to trippers searching for a place to camp for the night. It's called backcountry etiquette. Sounds like the arsehole you met had none. Your explanation and apology should've been more than enough to make things right. It's never a bad thing to meet a fellow backcountry traveller, especially one as thoughtful as you. The jerk missed his chance to provide a positive example to the kids, showing respect and hospitality to a stranger, and gaining much in return. His dumbass behaviour still provided an educational experience to the kids, but in an unfortunate way.
I've heard that there are some lazybones who regularly pick occupied sites, and make no apologies for it. This guy might've mistaken you for one of those. They're like squatters moving in and choosing the best sites regardless if they're taken or not; they're rude, pushy and arrogant, and prone to thieving. Maybe that's just one of those myths, passed from campfire to campfire, forum to forum. Nevertheless, I think about it every time I see an approaching canoe party. I wonder if I'm about to be invaded by a ragtag bunch of losers looking to trash my little piece of heaven. But I always offer directions to the nearest campsite down the shore, or if late in the day, offer hospitality at my own camp.
You made no mistakes Al, you and your nephew merely met an arsehole typically having a bad day.

 

[Rippy]

I would have moved first thing, unless I was having an emergency of some sort. I like my privacy and assume others do as well.

 

[Doc.]

I think most of the above is sheer rationalization. He was there first - it was his campsite. Despite the fact that none of us (I assume) would have demonstrated "dumbass" behavior and assume an "arse"-like posture, that makes no difference in the reality. It was his campsite. I would have broken camp, extinguished the fire, b*tched about it the whole time (to myself), given him a short, loving, and parting lecture, then paddled on.

 

[southcove]

All he had to do, was leave something hanging in a tree, sleeping bag drying over a branch, etc to let others know that the site was occupied... I've set up my camp at the very edge of a site to get away from sun or wind exposure and the one time found folks eating lunch at my fire pit...I was apolectic (!) but calmed down and realized they were innocent as my camp was pretty hidden. And they volunteered in the first 5 sentences that they were moving on...

If you camped at a remote fly in spot, then you almost have to take it for granted, that you may soon (big bird flying out of the sky) have company and the atmosphere can quickly turn a bit frosty as everyone's habits and so forth can be dramaticaly different and plenty of 'outdoorsman' you meet are not considerate campers...

 

[yellowcanoe]

Its happened to me and Shearwater. We were looking for Robin,.. We thought we had found his tent. It was canvas. It was from Cabela's . We should have known better as it was not a small traditional tent We thought he was out hunting Way after dark a Coleman canoe appeared . We did not know it was a Coleman as we just sat in camp and saw an outline of a camoflaged hunter bearing a rifle.
We said "Robin?" He said NO.

Turned out he was an orthopedic surgeon a really nice guy. We helped move his boat on shore and said we would leave. He said it was fine that we stayed the night. We shared libation and had a nice campfire for a little while. He was tired. We were redfaced and at the crack of a rainy dawn resumed our search..
Funny it took three days to find Robin on Little Tupper ( redfaced again)

Why in earth did they expect to shoot a moose in camp? Well maybe ease of transport if successful but entrails would need to go elsewhere. We had two moose intrude on breakfast last month.. 10 feet away. If lights bothered them I wonder why they walk in front of cars.. They have pretty bad eyesight but good noses. I can understand the dad teaching the kids to be quiet on the hunt but bad language is not something they need to be taught too.

We'd have moved on if we had been smart enough to know it wasn't Robins tent. I think I was the dumber one.

BTW you going to Low's... You may find the same situation..
Maybe Robin can post a pic of his canoe and tent so you know what you are looking for for sure.

 

[Canotrouge]

I think what Doc. said is right! We rarely share campsite with others, but this summer on our Big Salmon river trip, when we reach the yukon river and Twin Creek, we didn't have much of a choice, we were late in the day, and despite the fact that there was an other campsite a few hundred yard down stream, we decided to camp on the down stream side of the creek from an other party (one canoe 2 guys) considered the same campsite. it was a good decision since later that night we found out that the campsite down stream from us, a much smaller site, was occupied by a bunch having a post wedding canoe trip and it was quite the party... Would have not been appropriate for the kids paddling with us! The 2 guys came across the creek to chat with us and they were actually happy we were there!!

Sometime it is not a big deal and some time ti si not an option to move on!

 

[pblanc]

Most likely I would have packed up and moved on as soon as the gear was spotted. Unless I felt it was too dark and conditions made it dangerous to do so.

In that circumstance, I would have considered myself a "squatter" and made myself as unobtrusive as possible meaning no fire, and certainly not a big one. I know nothing about moose hunting, nothing about hunting of any type, but I do know that not every outdoors person wants a fire. I find increasingly that I am allergic to the smoke. I suspect that most hunters want to turn in when it gets dark, or as soon as possible after, and rise early.

When the original campsites occupant's returned I would have explained the situation and told them that I had arrived late enough that I did not feel safe moving on.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I think most of the above is sheer rationalization. He was there first - it was his campsite. Despite the fact that none of us (I assume) would have demonstrated "dumbass" behavior and assume an "arse"-like posture, that makes no difference in the reality. It was his campsite. I would have broken camp, extinguished the fire, b*tched about it the whole time (to myself), given him a short, loving, and parting lecture, then paddled on.

I agree.

It was his site. It was your decision to wait so late in the day to find a campsite, not his fault at all. You should have suffered the penalty of inconvenience, not him -- unless this was an emergency situation for your party, which it doesn't sound like.

JMO.

 

[lowangle al]

Thanks for the responses. Had I seen the site was occupied I would never have stopped. Had I decided to move as soon as I saw the gear I may have had time to move but there are only two other campsites that I know of in the area. One was upstream and I didn't have the energy for that, the other one was far enough away that I didn't know if I'd get there by dark and it is difficult to find in daylight. If worse came to worse we could have paddled to the takeout less than 3 hours away and although the river isn't over class I there are still rocks and sweepers that need to be avoided. As far as waiting too late in the day to camp, I didn't have much choice. I only know of three campsites in that 19 mile stretch and the first one is too far upstream to get me to the landing early enough to hopefully find a ride to my vehicle saving a 12 mile walk. Before I made it to the river there was a 1.25 mile portage and another 1.5 miles of some floating some dragging and some carrying with no trail.


I felt bad about it but not guilty. I was dissapointed with the guys reaction, even after he told us about his no fire policy I still thought he would come out and sit by the fire with the kids (like I invited) for a few minutes before we all retired.

 

[forest runes]

Al , I don't think you did this with malice aforthought , after your explanation & mea culpa if he did not accept it, that is stupid & life is tough when your stupid. I wouldn't beat myself up , just chalk it up to an experience.

 

[Canotrouge]

Al , I don't think you did this with malice aforthought , after your explanation & mea culpa if he did not accept it, that is stupid & life is tough when your stupid. I wouldn't beat myself up , just chalk it up to an experience.

Yup!!