Solo Tripping in an OT Pack 12

[Brasenia]

Hi, All.

Before I begin, I will say that I've done my homework, and I know people are split over whether you can/should solo trip in the OT Pack or not....so I'm hoping to avoid regurgitating that "discussion" here. For better or for worse, I recently came into possession of an OT Pack, and it is the only solo canoe we own. We do not have the money at the moment to buy any of the other solo canoes we hope to own one day, so if we can keep this discussion to the OT Pack, that would be awesome!

So, if you own an OT Pack how have you outfitted it for tripping? If you do not own an OT Pack but want to play along, how would you outfit it for tripping? It came with both the standard seat and the OT Angler Seat.

Dropping the seat seems the most obvious first step. I've read that some people have also moved it forward a few inches. I've read that others have added a kneeling thwart. Still others have added foot pegs. Then there are those who use an adhesive backed seat on the hull. What have you done/would you do with the seating on an OT Pack for tripping?

I'm thinking a 250cm double bladed paddle and a standard paddle.

Next, some people have added permanent carry yoke, while others have used a clamp on carry yoke. I know people have moved the thwart location, and those who have removed either OT seat have added a rear thwart. Thoughts?

Finally, in terms of gear configuration (and tie downs for Class I/II), any thoughts? A few well-placed d-rings?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Turtle2]

You can solo trip in any boat-just do it and have fun. If you lower the seat,you won't be able to kneel. I moved seats foreward on a pack and the owner liked it. If your tripping,you could put more weight foreward and leave the seat where it is.

 

[dramey]

This is what I would do to outfit an Old Town Pack. I would make a clamp on portage yoke for it. I would add a thwart behind the seat. I would shock cord both thwarts. I would shock cord both decks for coiled lines. I would drill holes into each end 4" down and 2" in from the stem and epoxy in a 1/2" pcv pipe for my painter loops. I have an Old Town Discovery 119 and have outfitted it just as I have described above.

 

[Guest]

I know people are split over whether you can/should solo trip in the OT Pack or not

For better or for worse, I recently came into possession of an OT Pack, and it is the only solo canoe we own.

The OT pack was the first solo canoe I ever owned as well, and remains dear to my heart. Bought new in 1988, and paddled in one guise or another for 20+ years, including early on as a flatwater tripping canoe, day use canoe, young sons solo, small stream/marsh/swamp boat, novice friend’s loaner boat and finally as a customized duckhunting boat. My elderly once-boss paddles it still today.

I loved that little canoe, one of the finest retail purchases ever, and used the Pack on multi-day/weeklong trips all over the east coast, as well as in Texas, Arizona, some Rockie Mt lakes and in the Pacific NW.

Nothing much above class 1, although I did run a short Class 2 adjacent to a campsite on the Rio Grande with the empty Pack, just to see. Ran it repeatedly, taking different lines and, eh, screwing around in different ways. It was hot, the run out pool below camp was long, deep and calm, and I enjoyed the swims. And, perhaps a more important lesson,discovered just how far I could push the Pack. Even in a calm deep pool the canoe recoveries were educational.

I did admittedly carry a lot less gear and creature comforts in those days, essentially my backpacking gear plus - yippie! - a folding chair and small cooler. Just those couple items seemed like the lap of luxury.

So, if you own an OT Pack how have you outfitted it for tripping?

The Pack got most of the outfitting touches I have in every other canoe, starting almost immediately with a couple strategically placed D-ring anchor pads, and short webbing loop tie downs on the ends of the machine screws. While I carried minimal gear at that time I kinda needed almost every item, and was paddling a lot of new-to-me, wonder-what’s-ahead waters, so I was kinda anal about securing critical gear; basically two dry bags.


Also immediately, I drilled big drain holes at the tip of the decks, so when I shouldered the Pack I didn’t get a drenching. And installed a /\ of bungee cord painter keeper on those decks as well. Maybe $20 today in D-rings, webbing and bungee, and an hour in outfitting; it was a good start.

I added a foot brace and minicel knee bumpers on the inwales early on. And later a back band. Those serve as both comfort and efficiency outfitting.

Once the Pack was used enough to show the stem wear areas for skid plates I installed a set; regrettably, at the time, a kevlar felt kit. They were at least done “right” and are still on the Pack today.

In its life as a duck hunting canoe, small and light enough that I could drag (yes “drag”, no one in their right mind is walking through a Spartina marsh with a canoe on their shoulders) it back to hidden basin ponds in the marsh, I added a camouflage spray cover on a raised cowling with a gun rest underneath.

And what I called a “Brush Holder”, a wooden T-bar on the bow deck plate, drilled like a chunk of Swiss cheese; I could cut and stick winter-leafy Pin Oak branches in it for a downriver floating hide. When I stopped hunting I still used it occasionally on birding trips. Looks like a big leafy log floating on the current.

I'm thinking a 250cm double bladed paddle and a standard paddle.

I’m thinking, unless you are committed to using a high angle stroke and suffering a wet lap (wet head when the wind is blowing) from raised paddle blade drips, that is a little short. Starting your stroke near the widest part of an outwale-to-outwale 32” wide canoe you may want a bit longer for a low angle touring type stroke.

I had a 274cm Mohawk DBCP (double blade canoe paddle) at first, which was too long, but at the time the only inexpensive canoe double blade solution. I got a better quality, lighter 260, which was just about perfect in the Pack with a low angle stroke. YMMV.

Next, some people have added permanent carry yoke, while others have used a clamp on carry yoke. I know people have moved the thwart location, and those who have removed either OT seat have added a rear thwart. Thoughts?

I can’t imagine moving the seat in the Pack back far enough to allow installing a permanent yoke. I know I want at least 20” between the front edge of the seat and a thwart or yoke, that seems a long way back of center in a 12’ canoe unless you are kneeling all the time.

I never felt the need to move the OEM seat location. I did drop it about an inch to my sweet spot, and replaced the flimsy, wobbly OT drilled dowel drops with two truss drops (or maybe four \_/ drops; that was a long time ago). Whichever, the new drops provided a more rigid hang for the seat, almost the equivalent of a stern thwart.

I had a clamp-on yoke for the Pack, and hated it. For starters I had to remember to bring it (oops a time or two), it was a minor PITA to put on/take off and I had to figure some way to secure it attached out of the way in the canoe while paddling.

I put a Mohawk Webbing Yoke in the Pack and never looked back.

https://www.mohawkcanoes.com/collections/seats-yokes-and-thwarts/products/webbing-yoke

At 33lbs the webbing yoke was comfy fine, even on longer carries. I’ve since put DIY webbing yokes in every solo canoe we own. A permanent, always-there installation, rolls up and Velcros under an inwale when not in use. Five second to uncoil and connect it, 30 seconds to coil it back up and Velcro it away below the inwale ‘til next time.

P2160533 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

FWIW that webbing yoke photo is on a 70lb canoe, a soloized Vermont RX Explorer; I wouldn’t want to carry the Explorer far with that simple webbing yoke, but for racks to truck to water and back it works fine.

Finally, in terms of gear configuration (and tie downs for Class I/II), any thoughts? A few well-placed d-rings?

Eh, float bags, caution and a willingness to scout and say “Oh heck no”.

See D-ring and webbing loop tie downs above. I’m old, not bold; I wouldn’t run a gear loaded Pack through anything but the most forgiving, calm run-out pool Class II. I ran our Pack through some Class II empty, and later with floatation, and that was the limit of what I wanted to try.

Apologies for running long. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I made more memories with that little OT Pack than in any of the dozens of canoe since.

 

[DaveO]

I had an OT Pack long ago. Had some memorable times with it in the Moose River Plains and St. Regis Canoe Area.

If you can paddle comfortably with the stock seat height, loaded and unloaded, then I would stick with it at that height. If you are not planning to kneel, and you want or need more stability, then lowering the seat might make sense.

Some pack canoes are designed to require a seat down on the hull which necessitates a double blade. The design of the OT Pack hangs the bench seat from the gunwales, so you can sit up comfortably out of the bilge with a nice view, and use either the single or double blade.

I like D rings on the inside hull, to tie down gear when tripping, although that is controversial and there is no standard answer on whether or not to tie in the gear. I like air bags for unloaded trips. It is a good safety precaution, but kind of a pain. It seems most casual canoe paddlers don't bother. If you put in some D rings, use vynabond sparingly. Too much can melt the royalex.

I put in a tug eye (no longer made) for a bow line. Having something like a tug eye is nice but not easily done. I might just put in a carry handle and tie the painter to that. A carry handle will add hardly any weight. However you do it, you should have a good painter line solidly attached.

It is relatively light. Most people can carry it on one shoulder (with some padding) a short distance no problem. Clamp on yokes are futzy but not that bad and make longer carries easy.

In sum, one virtue of the OT Pack is its simplicity, light weight, and all around utility. I would not overly soup it or change it up, but that’s just me.

 

[ppine]

The last time I visited with Mark Adams up by Reno he was building an OT Pack 12 out of cedar and canvas.

 

[sedover]

In sum, one virtue of the OT Pack is its simplicity, light weight, and all around utility. [/FONT]

New to this neighborhood but not to solo canoeing. Been soloing since 78 primarily with a MR Malecite. When its weight became too much I tried my first Pack(bought new). Then went with a used Blackhawk Shadow but found the layup a bit light. On to my 2nd Pack (older and well used) after I made the mistake of selling my first one, Also have a MR Slipper.

I paddle mine backwards and use the seat as a map/work table. I'm a kneeler so I can pull this off. No problem handling a solo touring load. With the first one I drilled out the rail rivets and fitted short webbing straps with new rivets to secure a perimeter cord for a spray cover and lashing cordage.

Surely nowhere near as elegant as the Shadow and Slipper, it does however work. A bonus is that it does fit within a full size van

 

[snapper]

Not that you asked, but for what it's worth, years ago I ran into two guys who were paddling an OT Pack canoe on the Oswegatchie River in the Adirondacks. I met them at High Falls and they were coming down from the carry that leads over to Big Deer Pond. They were on an extended trip that began at the Bog River Flow and were heading downstream to Inlet. They were pretty well crammed into the canoe with all their gear but they made it work so I'm sure you'll be fine using it as a solo.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

 

[DaveO]

So I was out in my new-to-me Flashfire, and I realized that I left out perhaps the most important thing - some way to brace your feet. I absolutely need a footbrace in the Flashfire to be comfortable, but it is narrower and more round-bottomed than your Pack. If I had a Pack, I would probably put in a Northstar or Wenonah footbrace. The downside is that it adds weight, cramps the capacity a bit, and is not an easy thing to do, especially the first time.

Alternatively, you can brace your feet against your packs when tripping. When out for day trips, I have used empty coolers, tupperware, and the like, to brace my feet against. This is easier to do in a shortish 12" canoe like the Pack.

In sum, you want a plan for bracing your feet.

 

[Guest]

So I was out in my new-to-me Flashfire, and I realized that I left out perhaps the most important thing - some way to brace your feet. I absolutely need a footbrace in the Flashfire to be comfortable, but it is narrower and more round-bottomed than your Pack. If I had a Pack, I would probably put in a Northstar or Wenonah footbrace. The downside is that it adds weight, cramps the capacity a bit, and is not an easy thing to do, especially the first time.

In sum, you want a plan for bracing your feet.

I have installed a Wenonah adjustable foot brace in every open canoe we own, solos and stern tandem.

https://www.wenonah.com/Items.aspx?id=29

Four drilled holes and pop rivets simple to install. I don’t have an un-installed one to weigh, maybe a pound in aluminum rails and telescoping bar?

With a 5-point “stance” - feet pressed against foot brace, knees pressed again minicel bumpers, lower spine against a back band - I could throw the 12’ Pack around with some abandon even while seated.

I would be forlorn paddling a canoe from the seated position without a foot brace.

 

[Brasenia]

You can solo trip in any boat-just do it and have fun. If you lower the seat,you won't be able to kneel. I moved seats foreward on a pack and the owner liked it. If your tripping,you could put more weight foreward and leave the seat where it is.

Thanks! Yes...I agree that the goal is to have fun, but I would also like to be efficient so that I can maximize the use of this canoe in the North Maine Woods and beyond.

I had not considered not being able to kneel with the seat lowered. I'm pretty sure I want to be able to both kneel and sit.

 

[Brasenia]

This is what I would do to outfit an Old Town Pack. I would make a clamp on portage yoke for it. I would add a thwart behind the seat. I would shock cord both thwarts. I would shock cord both decks for coiled lines. I would drill holes into each end 4" down and 2" in from the stem and epoxy in a 1/2" pcv pipe for my painter loops. I have an Old Town Discovery 119 and have outfitted it just as I have described above.

I've been thinking about the clamp-on portage yoke, and I like the idea of the aft thwart. I have added the painter loops to all our boats, and I'll certainly do the same with this one.

 

[Brasenia]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply, Mike.

The Pack got most of the outfitting touches I have in every other canoe, starting almost immediately with a couple strategically placed D-ring anchor pads, and short webbing loop tie downs on the ends of the machine screws. While I carried minimal gear at that time I kinda needed almost every item, and was paddling a lot of new-to-me, wonder-what’s-ahead waters, so I was kinda anal about securing critical gear; basically two dry bags.

D-ring pads are a no-brainer, and I like the way you think. What do you mean about "short webbing loop tie downs on the ends of the machine screws"?

Also immediately, I drilled big drain holes at the tip of the decks, so when I shouldered the Pack I didn’t get a drenching. And installed a /\ of bungee cord painter keeper on those decks as well. Maybe $20 today in D-rings, webbing and bungee, and an hour in outfitting; it was a good start.

I had not thought about the drain holes!

I added a foot brace and minicel knee bumpers on the inwales early on. And later a back band. Those serve as both comfort and efficiency outfitting.

Minicell, right? What kind of back band?

Once the Pack was used enough to show the stem wear areas for skid plates I installed a set; regrettably, at the time, a kevlar felt kit. They were at least done “right” and are still on the Pack today.

Skid plates are on my list for sure.

I’m thinking, unless you are committed to using a high angle stroke and suffering a wet lap (wet head when the wind is blowing) from raised paddle blade drips, that is a little short. Starting your stroke near the widest part of an outwale-to-outwale 32” wide canoe you may want a bit longer for a low angle touring type stroke. I had a 274cm Mohawk DBCP (double blade canoe paddle) at first, which was too long, but at the time the only inexpensive canoe double blade solution. I got a better quality, lighter 260, which was just about perfect in the Pack with a low angle stroke. YMMV.

Great advice. I've kayaked quite a bit, but I've never used a double bladed paddle in a canoe.

I can’t imagine moving the seat in the Pack back far enough to allow installing a permanent yoke. I know I want at least 20” between the front edge of the seat and a thwart or yoke, that seems a long way back of center in a 12’ canoe unless you are kneeling all the time.

Yes. That math has been befuddling me....lol

I never felt the need to move the OEM seat location. I did drop it about an inch to my sweet spot, and replaced the flimsy, wobbly OT drilled dowel drops with two truss drops (or maybe four \_/ drops; that was a long time ago). Whichever, the new drops provided a more rigid hang for the seat, almost the equivalent of a stern thwart.

Okay. I need to think about this. I have some stainless hardware in the shop, and I was going to try a few different heights.

I had a clamp-on yoke for the Pack, and hated it. For starters I had to remember to bring it (oops a time or two), it was a minor PITA to put on/take off and I had to figure some way to secure it attached out of the way in the canoe while paddling. I put a Mohawk Webbing Yoke in the Pack and never looked back. https://www.mohawkcanoes.com/collections/seats-yokes-and-thwarts/products/webbing-yoke

Great idea!

At 33lbs the webbing yoke was comfy fine, even on longer carries. I’ve since put DIY webbing yokes in every solo canoe we own. A permanent, always-there installation, rolls up and Velcros under an inwale when not in use. Five second to uncoil and connect it, 30 seconds to coil it back up and Velcro it away below the inwale ‘til next time.

Love it!

P2160533 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

FWIW that webbing yoke photo is on a 70lb canoe, a soloized Vermont RX Explorer; I wouldn’t want to carry the Explorer far with that simple webbing yoke, but for racks to truck to water and back it works fine.



Eh, float bags, caution and a willingness to scout and say “Oh heck no”.

See D-ring and webbing loop tie downs above. I’m old, not bold; I wouldn’t run a gear loaded Pack through anything but the most forgiving, calm run-out pool Class II. I ran our Pack through some Class II empty, and later with floatation, and that was the limit of what I wanted to try.

Apologies for running long. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I made more memories with that little OT Pack than in any of the dozens of canoe since.

Is that a yay or nay on the float bags?

Fantastic! Thanks so much!

 

[Brasenia]

I had an OT Pack long ago. Had some memorable times with it in the Moose River Plains and St. Regis Canoe Area.

If you can paddle comfortably with the stock seat height, loaded and unloaded, then I would stick with it at that height. If you are not planning to kneel, and you want or need more stability, then lowering the seat might make sense.

Some pack canoes are designed to require a seat down on the hull which necessitates a double blade. The design of the OT Pack hangs the bench seat from the gunwales, so you can sit up comfortably out of the bilge with a nice view, and use either the single or double blade.

I like D rings on the inside hull, to tie down gear when tripping, although that is controversial and there is no standard answer on whether or not to tie in the gear. I like air bags for unloaded trips. It is a good safety precaution, but kind of a pain. It seems most casual canoe paddlers don't bother. If you put in some D rings, use vynabond sparingly. Too much can melt the royalex.

I put in a tug eye (no longer made) for a bow line. Having something like a tug eye is nice but not easily done. I might just put in a carry handle and tie the painter to that. A carry handle will add hardly any weight. However you do it, you should have a good painter line solidly attached.

It is relatively light. Most people can carry it on one shoulder (with some padding) a short distance no problem. Clamp on yokes are futzy but not that bad and make longer carries easy.

In sum, one virtue of the OT Pack is its simplicity, light weight, and all around utility. I would not overly soup it or change it up, but that’s just me.

I do like simplicity. I tend to like having my gear tied down, especially when solo and a long way from assistance.

 

[Brasenia]

With the first one I drilled out the rail rivets and fitted short webbing straps with new rivets to secure a perimeter cord for a spray cover and lashing cordage.

You don't happen to have a picture of that, do you? A DIY spray cover? A spray cover sounds very nice to me for ice out in the spring and fall trips.

 

[Brasenia]

Not that you asked, but for what it's worth, years ago I ran into two guys who were paddling an OT Pack canoe on the Oswegatchie River in the Adirondacks. I met them at High Falls and they were coming down from the carry that leads over to Big Deer Pond. They were on an extended trip that began at the Bog River Flow and were heading downstream to Inlet. They were pretty well crammed into the canoe with all their gear but they made it work so I'm sure you'll be fine using it as a solo.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

Wow! Tandem tripping in a Pack!

 

[Brasenia]

So I was out in my new-to-me Flashfire, and I realized that I left out perhaps the most important thing - some way to brace your feet. I absolutely need a footbrace in the Flashfire to be comfortable, but it is narrower and more round-bottomed than your Pack. If I had a Pack, I would probably put in a Northstar or Wenonah footbrace. The downside is that it adds weight, cramps the capacity a bit, and is not an easy thing to do, especially the first time.

Alternatively, you can brace your feet against your packs when tripping. When out for day trips, I have used empty coolers, tupperware, and the like, to brace my feet against. This is easier to do in a shortish 12" canoe like the Pack.

In sum, you want a plan for bracing your feet.

Thanks!

 

[Brasenia]

FYI: Here's another thread I found with some great ideas/info:

https://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/vi...=RRT, I would start by,just one in the centre.

 

[Brasenia]

Okay! So thanks to your advice here and lots of reading up, here is my plan:


First I'm going to install painter loops at both the bow and the stern. These loops will serve both as an attachment point for my painters and for an attachment point for my center keeper straps. The bow keeper strap will run from the painter loop back and over the forward thwart and then down to the d-ring. I'm debating installing an aft thwart so I can have the same system there.

In terms of attachment points at the gunwales for the strapping, I've always had wooden gunwales to which I've attacked p-cord loops (and then rigged a strap or cord "cage"). I imagine I can either drill holes into the gunwales and attach loops for attachment points OR install one d-ring on each side midway between bow and thwart and tucked up under the gunwale for a diamond rig.

I'm going to add knee pads, but I'm thinking about skipping a foot brace system and instead rely on my dry bag as a foot brace. I'll use a float bag in the bow to make the fit tight.

I usually like to install a webbing loop or right in front of me for a dry box or other personal gear.

I'm liking the webbing portage yoke idea. I'll probably do skid plates eventually too.

Still playing with seat height. I only have 5" stainless drops in the shop.

Thoughts?

 

[Jim Dodd]

12' ? Here's a pic of my Vader, at 16'4", loaded for a 5 day trip in the BWCA.

Don't think I could get by, without a serious reduction in gear, if I shrunk it down to 12'
!

Nessmuk claimed a total of 26# I'm a tad over that !