Running the Upper St. John River

[dougd]

A bunch of us ran the Upper St. John from Baker Lake to St. Francis, about 124 miles or so. It's a beautiful river that likes to play with you with rapids and headwinds, I hate headwinds! My biggest gripe was the fees to get into the NMW (North Maine Woods). I doubt I'll ever run this again due to the costs in fees and travel but damnation I'm mighty glad I did. Here's a link to my blog, heavy in pictures:

http://scooter-bangortoportland.blogspot.com/2017/05/running-upper-st-john-river.html

dougd

 

[Chip]

Thanks, Doug. I was looking forward to this TR. Looks like things are about the same as on my last trip there, in 2002. I'm going to have to look at the nine-mile gauge and see how the water level compared. There was one saying I remember from my friends about the lower half: "a mile wide and an inch deep." Sounds like you got to experience that. That was a nice long trip. Obviously, if you just stay on the river you can cover a lot of miles, but that's for losers. Better to take your time and enjoy, which it seems as your party did.

At Priestly, in 2000, we ran into eight Cape Codders calling themselves the Brotherhood of the Moose. They'd been camped there all day and were on a screaming, day-long drunk. Apparently, the shuttle road passes nearby. They'd stopped on their shuttle and stashed a 30-pack of Bud for each man. Then they stopped at that ice pile and filled up on ice before they landed at Priestly. It was late in the day by the time we stopped and asked if we could share the site, and they were so lit we considered moving on. Not wanting to tackle Big Black so late in the day, we did the prudent thing and stayed, and once we got to know the BOM, we found them highly entertaining, and I mean highly. I laughed until it hurt.

Good TR, obviously brings back some memories. Thanks for writing it up!

 

[Chip]

Water Levels--I had to look back at notes and look up the levels you had. The last couple days, you must have been dragging. People that know that river have different opinions about canoe zero, but I hear tell it's somewhere around 2,000 cfs. The level really tailed off on you. Didn't it rain?

 

[dougd]

We had some rain but not enough. Yeah, the last day after Big Rapid was definitely low, we were trying to find channels with enough water in them so were wandering all over the river. When we got to the takeout Norm told us he dropped a couple off in sea kayaks with a warning not to curse him as he told them they would probably be dragging the last few miles. And yes we did take our time, some longer days and then some short ones. I really enjoyed the heck out of except for the entrance fee...Ouch!

 

[Guest]

Fine trip report and photos.

I was watching that gauge as well, knowing that you had opted to bring the composite Malecite instead of the RX Courier or poly Disco. Maybe this is your new normal, instead of 10 days of rain the river will dry up.

Did Riverstrider enjoy his new mouth bellows, and remember to blow not suck?

 

[Robin]

That was a good read and the pictures gave a good sense of what the river is like. The NMW's fees are pretty steep, easily twice the price of a crown land trip in Canada.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Enjoyed the report, pix and videos. Given the expense, distance, Maine weather, and type of river and topography, I'll not be doing it at my age and interest levels.

 

[dougd]

Mike, Riverstrider enjoyed his new bellows and used them several times over the trip, it worked great.

Robin, the price was steep but we knew that going in but after almost 10 months of planning we all knew it ahead of time and saved for it.

Glenn, glad you liked the write up. I won't be going back due to the distance and costs. It was a great trip but at that price for the NMW I'd rather focus on running a river I haven't seen yet. I've done repeat trips in the past and it takes a lot of the fun out of it.

 

[Chip]

Enjoyed the report, pix and videos. Given the expense, distance, Maine weather, and type of river and topography, I'll not be doing it at my age and interest levels.

We paddlers are a thrifty lot, at least when it comes to fees. And $192 is a chunk of money, and last time I paid the fee ($162 at the time), they wanted cash. However, there are lots of campgrounds that charge more. The KOA down the street from my house wants $49 for tent camping. At Kiptopeake (Va. state park) last summer, the fee was $24 for a non-electric camp site. Only Maryland's Martinac State Park came close to being as economical, at $19 for a non-electric tent site. Doug's fees work out to $19.20/day. That's a lot more than free, but does not seem outlandish.

Not sure what type of river and topography appeals to Mr. MacGrady, but have to agree with him on the distance. Ft. Kent is a long way and the shuttle is a real biscuit. I'd kind of like to do the Alligash again, but you end up in the same place and facing that same drive down route 11.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Not sure what type of river and topography appeals to Mr. MacGrady

Well, I'll paddle anything if it comes down to it, but I do have preferences. I don't care for rivers that have too much of combination of these characteristics: wide, shallow, slow, an absence of interesting rapids, muddy-banked, steep-banked, windy, a rainy or gloomy clime, no mountain or other geological scenery. Maybe I get the wrong impression from Doug's pictures and my personal familiarity with the St. John much further downstream, but the river seems to have several of these characteristics.

As to camping prices today, I am an archaic creature of the mid-20th century. I can't believe the prices. I can get Motel 6, and sometimes do, for less than a price of some campsites. That's why I've used vans for 35 years. I sleep in them in any place that's free, including parking lots, truck stops, rest stops, side streets, and trail heads. (I don't recommend rest stops.) I grew up partly in Maine and love it, but I will stealth camp there rather than pay some of the prices.

Also, I naively believe god's wilderness should be open to all and not some sort of piggy bank for governmental socialism to redistribute taxpayer wealth. That's one reason I'll probably never go back to Canada. I can't even get into that country anymore without paying U.S. Big Brother for a special permit. And when I get there I have to pay Canada Big Brother a bunch of money to go into the woods, and often to pay more, or perhaps be barred totally from entering some woods, because I'm not the right nationality. Stick it!

God bless the Adirondacks. Scenic and free.

 

[Chip]

I don't care for rivers that have too much of combination of these characteristics: wide, shallow, slow, an absence of interesting rapids, muddy-banked, steep-banked, windy, a rainy or gloomy clime, no mountain or other geological scenery.

That's a pretty good list most paddlers will sign up to. We need a new thread to identify GM-likable rivers. How about portages and development? Shall we include a minimum distance? There aren't too many places I have found where I can paddle 100+ miles and be mostly by myself. At least on the St. John, there are no portages and no Adirondack camps lining the shore. But I agree with your assessment, that there is a lack of scenic geography on the St. John, or rather a profusion of one type of scenic geography: tree-lined, rolling forest land.

I naively believe god's wilderness should be open to all and not some sort of piggy bank for governmental socialism to redistribute taxpayer wealth.

In the instance of the St. John, god's wilderness is owned by a consortium of paper companies. No government socialism is funded by the NMW fees. The money goes to corporations, and they use at least some of it to maintain the recreation facilities along the river. This may be a preview of how U.S. parks will function if they are privatized. They want to do it with air traffic control, why not the parks?

 

[Robin]

Doug's fees work out to $19.20/day. That's a lot more than free, but does not seem outlandish.
.

Doug must have gotten a discount cause the NMW website states $15 a day for day use, add $15 for camping (non resident).

LaVerendrye, Quebec is 50 miles closer to my home in nw Connecticut (500 miles) With the exchange rate it costs $10 US a day to canoe camp. True you don't get a moldy picnic table and you have to suffer with a true rock fire place vs a Maine truck rim fire pit, but they have some great rivers and lake to lake circuits.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to visit the NMW's but it's just way overpriced compared to other trips. The good news is next year I'll be 70 and will take advantage of my age and go 1/2 price to the NMW's


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[TR]
MAINE RESIDENTS OTHERS [/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Under 15[/TD]
[TD]Free Day Use + Camping[/TD]
[TD]Free Day Use + Camping[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 7"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Age 70 & Over[/TD]
[TD]Free Day Use[/TD]
[TD]Free Day Use[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 7"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Per Person Per Day[/TD]
[TD]$10.00[/TD]
[TD]$15.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 7"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Camping Per Night (in addition to daily fee)[/TD]
[TD]$12.00[/TD]
[TD]$15.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 7"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"] Over 70 / Camping Only Season Pass
Over 70 / Camping Only Annual Pass
[/TD]
[TD] $75.00
$125.00
[/TD]
[TD] $75.00
$125.00
[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="colspan: 7"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Day Use Annual Registration[/TD]
[TD]$125.00[/TD]
[TD]NA[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 7"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Day Use + Unlimited Camping Annual Registration[/TD]
[TD]$250.00[/TD]
[TD]NA[/TD]
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[/TR]
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[TD="colspan: 7"] [/TD]
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[Glenn MacGrady]

I know who owns Maine lands. It doesn't change my opinions or behavior. I won't pay.

It's true that you can't find many 100 mile canoe-campable rivers to paddle anywhere in the U.S., much less wilderness rivers. But that's not particularly important to me. We're all different and have different preferences. I don't need wilderness -- or, alternatively, I can find my own definition of wilderness around a few bends of most rivers. I don't primarily paddle to get into the woods or see nature, or to chop wood or to make fires. Nor do I hunt or fish. I was raised in the Maine woods and live on my own 11 acres of woods in Connecticut.

I paddle mainly to participate in the physical and mental act of paddling. For that purpose, water is water. Yeah, I was a whitewater river bagger long ago and have paddled all over North America, but I'm no longer willing to drive long distances to engage in redundancies. I can do that at home.

Ah . . . phooey . . . it's mainly old age. Everything's old, very old. Cars. Boats. Income. Opinions. Interests. Philosophy. Theology.

However, I do enjoy and get vicarious pleasure from trip reports and pictures. They show a commitment to the sport and to sharing it with others. I've never met Doug, but he's good at those things.

 

[deerfly]

don't know anything about the economics of this trip, but it looked like a great trip.

 

[riverstrider]

Fine trip report and photos.

I was watching that gauge as well, knowing that you had opted to bring the composite Malecite instead of the RX Courier or poly Disco. Maybe this is your new normal, instead of 10 days of rain the river will dry up.

Did Riverstrider enjoy his new mouth bellows, and remember to blow not suck?

I've been busier than a one legged man in an arse kicking contest since I got back, so this is the first I have a chance to read this thread. It was a good trip, and the water levels were fine except for the very last day.

That pocket bellows is the crap! It came in handy not only on the river but also at home. And I forgot to bring it on a recent trip to Cape Cod and was sorely missing it one night when we had a campfire in the back yard of our rental shack. Thanks, Mike! Even if it did say "To Matt", lol! Man, combine that together with one of Doug's road flares, and there is no way you'd fail at making a fire.

It will probably be some time before I go back, though. It is a tough time of year for me to be away from home, and I sure got an earful from Mrs. Riverstrider. I still am! She'll come around when I take her to the West Branch Penobscot, though.

-rs

 

[Guest]

That pocket bellows is the crap! It came in handy not only on the river but also at home. And I forgot to bring it on a recent trip to Cape Cod and was sorely missing it one night when we had a campfire in the back yard of our rental shack. Thanks, Mike! Even if it did say "To Matt", lol!

I am delighted that you find that telescoping “pocket bellows” handy. I am even more delighted that it is Sharpied “Matt”, who I thought was to be on that trip.

At least it didn’t say DougD; I only give him useless junk, always in a box with a faux company label. Last DougD package was from a “Furry Curious Support Group”, complete with Furry convention photo and questionnaire tape laminated to the outside of the box.

My postal clerk Kathy looked at the Furry photo, read the label and just put her head down on the counter laughing. I don’t know what Doug’s mail lady Tara thought, but she must be used to it by now.

BTW, for anyone who missed the original thread suggestion, the Pocket Bellows.

the pocket bellows.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L...9&sr=8-1&pi=SL75_QL70&keywords=pocket+bellows

You could visit a pick and pull and get an antenna or just use some tubing, but I've got enough things to do. Down here there isn't birch bark and softwood in abundance so starting fires is a little more difficult. The pocket bellows makes it much easier without inhaling a bunch of smoke and you can place the oxygen in a pinpoint spot of the fire. It's like having a blowtorch to get a fire going. It isn't a necessity, but is a great luxury, for a tiny piece of gear.

I looked back through a lot of purchases over the last two years. Thanks Mike, you've made me realize how much money I waste on gear when the biggest game changer of all of it is an extending metal straw.

Awesome little tool. Thanks Muskrat.