• Happy Publication of 1st Basketball Rules by James Naismith (1892)! 🏀🍑🧺

Rooftop canoe spacing

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
G

Guest

Guest
I haul 2 solo canoes on roof racks a lot. I usually space them app 1' apart so the airflow can go between them easier. They also are easier to load this way.This does make a wider load and possibly less stable. What are your opinions please?
Curious Turtle
 
By the time you get up to highway speeds, the boundary layer around your boats will likely be continuous. In other words, the air that is dragged along with your car and boats, is nearly all one contiguous mass. It matters little (at the higher velocities) whether your boats are 1 inch or 1 foot apart.
Stick your hand out the window at 65 mph...how far out can you go before you feel the full 60 mph draft? And that boundary layer is wrapped around a mostly aerodynamically well designed profile. Your boats were never designed for those speeds and fluids, so the boundary layers around them would be even wider.

As far as stability goes, how far are your boats from the rack to car attachment points?
And, do your boats wiggle around much?
Have you ever lost one yet??
 
I don't have any aerodynamic concepts to offer here, only empirical experience. I have carried two canoes on my Thule roof racks hundreds of times. A tandem 16-foot Mad River Explorer, and a wide Mohawk XL 13 solo. Their gunwales nestle up against each other. The are secured to the roof rack, and the bow and stern are tied, at cross angles to the lower front and rear of the vehicle. I have never had a problem. I have occasionally hauled five canoes on my roof rack. All securely tied. Have never had a problem. In fact, I have never even had any concerns. The canoes were securely tied. I would be very surprised if they ever came flying off.
 
No never any secure ,no wiggle problems. using yakama with round bars, gunnel brackets,2 bow lines,1 stern. I was mostly interested in aerodynamics-guess I will start spacing them close.--thanks.
 
44066585954_6d3078852a_b.jpg


I did not space the two canoes close on purpose. It was the only way they would fit. I am short, and slide the canoes up onto the van from the rear, while standing on a foot stool. I need extender bars to do this, as the canoe, when slid to its widest point, would fall off the rack without them. The gunwale brackets are on the inside. I tie a rope through the opening of the gunwale bracket with a bowline. I then toss the rope over the hull of the canoe, and tie it down very tightly to the roof rack with a truckers hitch. I then angle the bow and stern tie downs toward the centre of the van, again with a truckers hitch. Angling them inward, I believe, helps to prevent the wind from blowing the canoes outward. Of course, angling ropes and truckers hitches are no guarantee that the low pressure fuel pump will work in hot weather.

Most people now use straps for tie downs. I am old. I like knots. I use truckers hitches and bowlines.
 
Everyones vehicles are different.. I know Turtle has no trouble tying his boats down.. He has a good system for his car. But to answer his question I don't think it matters all that much if your boats are secure.. Air will be forced down under pressure wanting to separate them if narrowly spaced but neither of us has had sideway movement.. I do think however than mounting your canoe with its center aft of the center spacing between fore and aft bars does reduce bow wiggle which undoubtedly for me makes for more stability of the bow.. Not as much unsupported to make bow flappage.

Turtle you will have to experiment for yourself.

I think lashing systems are a totally different topic and there are a gazoodlillions of ways to do it.
 
One of my biggest fears, is going down a two lane highway, with a cross wind from my Left, and meeting a Semi coming the other way, at or above highway speed !!
It will rock my little S-10 something fierce !
Had one instance, that required repair, to my canoe.
There is little one can do, but since, it has nearly become a phobia for me !

Jim
 
I've had the same experience, Jim. When Kathleen and I first started canoe tripping, we had a 17.5-foot Clipper Tripper tied onto our small Toyota Tercel. On-coming Semis, on narrow, two-lane highways, really rocked us. Nothing was ever damaged, or came off, but I always pulled over to the right as far as I could, and even slowed down a bit. Don't know if that actually helped, but it made us feel more comfortable.
 
My gut reaction is that you would have the smallest turbulent wake zone behind the vehicle (less drag) with the boats close together but it's a complex physics problem and the answer might change depending on the vehicle and boat shape. If you have an instantaneous fuel economy gauge it would be pretty easy to experiment and see if moving the boats around makes any noticeable difference in fuel economy. I'd also be curious whether it's important to keep the boats pointed directly forward. Here's a link that does not answer your question but it does show that the wake zone may not be intuitive.
https://www.menshealth.com/technology-gear/a19482318/roof-racks-hurt-gas-mileage/
 
One of my biggest fears, is going down a two lane highway, with a cross wind from my Left, and meeting a Semi coming the other way, at or above highway speed !!
It will rock my little S-10 something fierce !
Had one instance, that required repair, to my canoe.
There is little one can do, but since, it has nearly become a phobia for me !

Jim, try it going across Kansas with boats atop a ’67 VW bus! Experienced VW bus drivers turn slightly towards the semi as it passes, and then slightly away from the sucking vortex as soon as the semi passes. It was like piloting a sailboat in confused winds.

Wind can be an issue anywhere and anytime. Crossing long, tall bridges for example. The worst windage experiences have been travelling across the Great Plains. We tie our boats down seriously tight, always with two belly lines, bow & stern lines and gunwale stops. Even so:

The gunwale stops on the Quick and Easy crossbars are strategically located pieces of 1” tall wood, positioned to trap both the inwale and outwale betwixt. That gunwale trap works very well, until it blows so freaking hard that one hull jumps the too-short gunwale stop.

It blew so fiercely on that trip across the plains that we had a hard time getting one of the truck doors open at a rest stop, and when we did a mini-tornado swept through the maps and paperwork inside the cab (and my partner regretted leaving some loose cash in a cup holder, although watching him chase a fiver across the parking lot was schadenfreude funny. He did not catch it, but he chased it for a long dang ways).

On a similar trip across the plains the force of the wind simply broke one of our gunwale stops. Which was not fun to DIY fix on the side of the road with the wind still howling. IIRC YellowCanoe had a crossbar tower destroyed in the Great Plains wind, which necessitated an awkward adventure.

To the original spacing question, with two canoes on the truck I will space them at least a few inches apart, not so much for aerodynamics as for assurance that they can’t possibly shift and rub against each other. We carry four boats on the van racks, all gunwales-down and offset nestled, two positioned fore and two aft, with each hull resting on two of the four Quick and Easy crossbars (11 feet of level rain gutter on the van). In order for all of the boats to be gunwales down they need to be positioned on the racks without too much cantilever overhand they are barely an inch away from each other.

One boat shifted in the wind, still in the gunwale stops, unnoticeably in bowline view. In the worst possible shift; the bolt head from a rudder pedal slider was pressed against the gel coat of the hull next door. A couple hundred miles of jiggling around left a deep, jagged scar in the gel coat.

About the actual aerodynamics, boundary layer and etc, I have little idea. I think about car advertisements that show a streamlined vehicle in a wind tunnel with smoke blowing tight across the hood and roof. We do not have a home wind tunnel, and our usual boat toting vehicles, old CR-V, older Ford van and the Tacoma, are not especially aerodynamic.

I do kinda wonder where the airstream, deflected by a non-areodynamic hood and windshield, ends up; trapped inside an open hull or streaming along the roofline underneath?

In empirical evidence carrying a couple of decked canoes sees a little less reduction in MPG vs a couple of open boats. No boats on the roof rack vs two open canoes on the racks sees a 3 – 4 MPG difference on the CR-V or Tacoma (in ideal conditions, no-traffic flat eastern coastal plain inter-State cruise control). The big 8-cylinder van only looses a couple MPG with four canoes on the racks, even when the van is burdened with a four people and a half ton of cross country gear.

One final Please Don’t note. A friend bought a little used Bell Magic. The seller offered to meet him half way. The seller elected to put the Magic on J-cradles, and cinch it down tightly with cam straps.

A bit too tightly, or maybe it was windy, or both. The little used, once pristine Magic arrived with the Plexused foot brace broken out and cracks through the foam ribs. I had harbored no doubts that gunwales down and flat on the crossbars was best, but that convinced me.
 
that mpg gauge is a good idea--my new car has one-I'll try it both ways.
 
Careful out there, someone might get dinged.
I am no knot genius but I try. And I won't even try to start a strap vs rope debate. That could be fun but would be rather pointless. I say ya dance with who brung ya more or less. Unless of course you want a new partner. I started with rope, tried straps, and now use either or and mostly both. I'm still always learning all the time. I am no expert in anything, and barely passable in most, but try in everything. I also prefer not to tie other people's stuff on other people's vehicles. It's a sensible sensitive territory thing. But last month I was placed in the slightly weird position of tying my canoe on someones else's car. Hmm. What's the dance step here, and who leads? I asked if he knew what he was doing, although I asked it in a more diplomatic way. His response was "I have no idea how to do this." So I took the lead. I strapped across the belly and through his open doors (he having only canoe foam blocks and no racks). I cinched it as tight as possible without any damage to canoe or car. Cam straps are great for this. And easy for the newbie in question to learn. But the car being a little compact meant there was still a lot of twisting play in the strapped canoe. So I then roped the back and front using the Trucker's. I explained a bunch of stuff even I don't remember any more, and all went well, until I demonstrated how I like to take out any play in the slidey antics of foam block on slippery roof tops. "It's easy!" I said and proceeded to demonstrate the 2:1 or whatever it does and then "Puck Puck Puck Puck!" went a metallic sound. Tying it off we went to investigate. Oh, I'd puckered the roof with that last Trucker's tug. "Well it's snug now!" said he good naturedly. "Sorry" said I, but I didn't loosen it off. I told him it would get them there. And it did. When they returned I asked about his car roof. He said it popped back out as soon as they loosened the ropes and straps at the put-in. I was relieved. And of course he'd figured out how to tie the canoe down for the return journey. I was really relieved.
 
Last edited:
that mpg gauge is a good idea--my new car has one-I'll try it both ways.

Turtle, I don’t have an instant MPG gauge or trip calculation gauge in the truck, but I record the gallons, cost via the calculator-in-the-console MPG for every fill up on every long trip.

In part for the tell tale boats-on-the-racks variations, but also for the “That was some crapty 87 octane gas at the last fill up” and the “Woah crap, climbing over that pass really screwed our mileage”. With a shift driver companion it becomes a bit of an unspoken “King of MPG” competition.

I run the eastern coastal plain often enough between northern Maryland and southern North Carolina, cruise controlled at un-trafficed hours, for the comparison to be revealing.
 
Is there really a significant difference between trailer and rooftop? Does weight (trailer) offset wind resistance (rooftop)?
Isn't driving behavior the biggest factor? ie Slow and steady cruising vs jackrabbit start and stop? And then there is speed.
I know that I can get north blowing off the speed limits but also nearly a full tank vs keeping to the speed limit and sparing a half tank of gas.
These days I prefer to spare the fuel and the speed.
How important is MPG to all you heavy haulers? Why don't you just pull a small 1 canoe trailer behind a Prius? My point being, where is the trade off?
I can't wait to see Mike's Prius back seat camping conversion.
 
Last edited:
Is there really a significant difference between trailer and rooftop? Does weight (trailer) offset wind resistance (rooftop)?
Isn't driving behavior the biggest factor? ie Slow and steady cruising vs jackrabbit start and stop? And then there is speed.
I know that I can get north blowing off the speed limits but also nearly a full tank vs keeping to the speed limit and sparing a half tank of gas.
These days I prefer to spare the fuel and the speed.
How important is MPG to all you heavy haulers? Why don't you just pull a small 1 canoe trailer behind a Prius? My point being, where is the trade off?
I can't wait to see Mike's Prius back seat camping conversion.

Well now. Prius and canoe trailer . In mud season would never even get out of our home dirt road
I don’t have the budget for a summer car. The Prius is one of those . Insufficient ground clearance for snow
can’t haul a small travel trailer
interesting visual. You have gotten your Prius down a wrong logging twitch road. One that peters out or has been barricaded. Ditched on both sides of a six foot wide track. Happy backing up for maybe a long way
I have seen some happy Prii owners with little trailers but that aren’t packed for a 8000 km trip

they are daytripping. Often they got the trailer for paddling because old age won.
visions of Mike sleeping in Prius. !!!
 
oops. I fumbled that one.

The Prius was only half serious, but I was making a point. Not everyone needs to drive a Ford 350 to a put-in. Especially a 8000 mi. put-in. On paved Interstate.
There are tradeoffs. Distance. Road conditions. And miles per gallon. We drive what we have. But the OP was canoe configuration on rooftop. My pondering was whether rooftop vs trailer was an issue? And if long distance travel was better for gas sipping setup vs gear hog haul setup. Just wondering if anyone had figured that out and what that looked like. No bias here, just curiosity.
Is there really a significant difference between trailer and rooftop? Does weight (trailer) offset wind resistance (rooftop)?
Isn't driving behavior the biggest factor? ie Slow and steady cruising vs jackrabbit start and stop? And then there is speed.


We are off north for the weekend. The canoe and gear likely won't hop aboard for the journey, but you never know. There have been issues. We'll see.
In any case it will feel a little empty driving up with no canoe no gear no paddling plans. I guess that means I will save on gas. I plan on taking the back roads and wandering some. Silver linings. Best wishes to you and whatever roads you follow. Your mileage may vary. I hope it will always be in your favour.
 
Last edited:
Usually one buys what makes the most sense for them in everyday life
for us that is a truck with AWD . Sedans aren’t the greatest for hauling wood or stuff to the transfer station nor road maintains supplies
For others who commute and drive in the city a big truck would make no sense
the trailer could be good for a car a rooftop carrying has an effect on mileage with small engines and if u turns on logging roads aren’t a concern
We had a Tundra that got the same mileage with canoe on roof as no canoe on roof
22 and 22
Ridgeline cares not too. 23 23
Forester cares. 28 21
 
Hi Jim, I always worry about transports as well ... on my recent foray to Quetico (18 hours for us) my son and I swapped driving every 2 hours. My only instructions where to watch for transports and move over to the edge of the lane away from them.

Surprisingly, you don't need to get over too far before there is practically no impact from the passage.

Brian
 
Why don't you just pull a small 1 canoe trailer behind a Prius? My point being, where is the trade off?
I can't wait to see Mike's Prius back seat camping conversion.

My wife had a Prius between owning a CR-V and her current Forester. She loved the MPG, and she could fit her bike in through the hatchback. She did not enjoy the lack of ground clearance or 2WD (our dirt/stone drive is 440 feet up a steep hill, so tough in winter snow).

I could convert a Prius to a sleeper, I did so with an 80’s Mitsubichi hatchback when I was between trucks, taking out the back seat and front passenger seat and installing a sleeping platform. It worked on a long solo trip. Not very well, but it worked.

Usually one buys what makes the most sense for them in everyday life

Unless you have the luxury of a dedicated camping and canoeing vehicle that is what most folks do. Our 2001 Ford van was purchased with that in mind; hauling four people, four boats and gear in comfort. We never used it as a commuter vehicle and at 17 years old it has only 118,000 miles on it, almost all from camping and canoeing trips.

Still, every vehicle, like every canoe, is a bit of a compromise. The one area in which I am not willing to compromise is the ability to rack (at least) two canoes. If my vehicle can’t carry two canoes it reduces my ability to trip with a companion in solo boats, and worse my vehicle is near useless in setting a shuttle.
 
Back
Top