Paddle abuse - Gunwale thumpers and scrapers

[Guest]

A recent conversation about “gunwale thumpers”, folks who somehow maddeningly manage to clonk the hull or gunwale on almost every stroke, reminded me of group trips past and demonstrations of awkward novice paddling “technique”.

And of a trip I did with my favorite bro-in-law and his wife. A delightfully gentle daytrip, I put her in a pack canoe with a nice wood double blade.

She wasn’t swish-CLUNK-swish-CLONK gunwale thumping, and I did not realize it while we were paddling, but she was dragging the shaft along the outwale with every stroke. Methinks I should have better demonstrated how to use a double blade.

In the course of a couple hours trip she wore through the varnish and well into the wood along large portions of the shaft. Just chewed it all to hell.

Even that wasn’t as unnerving as swish-CLUNK-swish-CLONK, and it was probably easier to repair that paddle shaft than to restore my sanity after a gunwale thumping drum circle.

Swish-CLUNK-swish-CLONK in a Grumman? The horror, the horror. . . . .

Other favorites – folks holding bent shafts backwards, or elliptical blades upside down.

Not to mention the quintessential “both hands wrapped around the shaft” technique occasionally seen in drug advertisements on television. I wouldn’t even mind that as much if they would use a decent canoe as a prop.

Of course when I first started paddling I knew everything there was to know. It’s amazing how much less I know I know now.

 

[Canotrouge]

Education... If people don't know they don't know... If you educate them and they still don't know then you educate them some more.... If if after al that education they still don't know... You tell them to get into something else, like reading...

One year, we had a student in our moving water courses, she had taken all the courses multiple times, Solo, tandem, swift water... And she still couldn't get her boat do what she needed the boat to do... One of the reason was that she would take a course, but she wouldn't paddle ever after that course and just take an other cours later in the season or the following year... So The owner of the canoe school told her that she wasn't allowed to sign up for an other course before she spent a fair amount of time on the water practicing the skills "learned".... The sae person own multiple hull that she doesn't paddle ever....

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

There are amateurish and expert strokes in canoeing, sex, petting animals and other things. The lines are not clear cut.

As to canoeing, many experts advocate prying off the gunwale on a J stroke and prying off/sliding along the gunwale on the recovery of the Canadian and Northwoods strokes. While holding the paddle at what I call the "comfort angle" -- in direct rebuke of the idealized and misunderstood "vertical paddle" mantra** -- you get more efficient leverage by prying off and sliding along the gunwale for all day tripping. And it also reduces stress on the wrists and forearms.

Bill Mason so advocates and demonstrates at around 6:00 of his classic Solo Basic video.

Kevin Callam so advocates in the second half of this J stroke and Canadian stroke video:

Hoop, who posts here and on his Wintertrekker site, shows the technique for the Canadian stroke in this video, the second half of which shows his gunwale levering and sliding:

Wooden gunwales will be much easier on paddles for extensive gunwale prying and sliding. Note that Hoop wraps his paddle with twine; others wrap with leather. I don't wrap with anything. Since I paddle narrow canoes, I don't resort to gunwale levering that often, but even so my cedar paddles will dent on ash gunwales. However, after thousands of denting impacts, the dents all sort of smooth together. I now use carbon paddles almost exclusively and they don't dent. I certainly wouldn't want to slide them along metal gunwales or even infused composite gunwales.

___________________________________

** The vertical paddle is an idealized construct to teach a proper forward stroke that minimizes off-side yaw. Once proper technique is learned, it's not important to actually hold the paddle vertical throughout the power phase of the forward stroke, and, indeed, it may be uncomfortable or impossible to do so depending on the size of the paddler and width of the canoe or kayak. What is important is to draw the paddle back parallel to the keel line.

 

[GearFreak]

Guilty - I am a gunwale drag/lever paddler. .

 

[Guest]

Guilty - I am a gunwale drag/lever paddler. .

I gunwale pry at times. And if I have really effed up my approach to something, not that gently. I think that is called the “Oh crap what have I done” gunwale pry.

And sometimes I just hold the paddle shaft against the outwale as rudimentary rudder with a sail. But even then the damage inflicted on a paddle shaft is minimal, even over time. I’m not grinding it pressed hard against the outwale every stoke.

Visually both Callan and Mason are gentle on the shaft in those videos, using their bottom hand to guide the shaft.

My reminiscences were more about awkward novice paddling technique. Callan and Mason’s instructional videos do not fit that mold, although we don’t have video evidence of their first early paddling experiences.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

For those who don't want to study the videos, the gunwale sliding is not done stern-ward on the propulsive power phase of the forward stroke. It's done bow-ward on the in-water recovery phase of the Canadian stroke. This is usually a matter of a few inches.

Using a gunwale lever on the J stroke saves your wrists and forearms from having to push outward on the J pry. Personally, I find the J stroke, no matter how done, to be tiresome. I agree with Mason, Callam and others that just about all long distance flatwater trippers use the Canadian stroke. I use a Canadian in-water recovery in connection with a modified C stroke, and can paddle arrow straight with no yaw or counter-yaw at all.

Hoop is thumping and yawing slightly on each stroke, but that's in part because he's paddling a heavily loaded tandem Prospector from the bow seat backward (or maybe even the stern seat), all at a slight heel.

 

[yknpdlr]

There appears to be notch worn in the wood gunwale where Hoop ends his stroke. When not racing or race training, I do the Canadian quite a lot, but more often I'm also doing a pitch stroke with or without the Canadian. While the Canadian is an extended post-J stroke, the pitch is something of a pre- J stroke. I do not scrape the gunwale.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I do Canadian when soloing the Prospector. Pry off the gun'l. Vinyl gun'ls are pretty easy on cherry wood.

Let's now ridicule all those SUPers who use those bloody expensive tall bent carbon paddles backwards. I have seen a few canoe paddlers do the same, including my wife and daughter when I first introduced them to the bent paddle. Easily cured in a way they can remember...."think broom - not hoe".

 

[Guest]

Education... If people don't know they don't know...

Not to mention the quintessential “both hands wrapped around the shaft” technique occasionally seen in drug advertisements on television. I wouldn’t even mind that as much if they would use a decent canoe as a prop.

Yeah, education. If Madison Avenue is going to spend big bucks to produce a Cialis or SUV ads using canoe or kayak props at least they could hire a paddling consultant.

I don’t watch a lot of television, but there seem to be a lot of folks paddling canoes and kayaks in advertising. Often padding them very badly. And lots of other WTF stuff, both on the water and on the vehicle

It has become a game to watch those, kinda like trying to ID the model of every canoe or kayak I see on cartopped the highway.

One ad I recently saw featured two 16-17 foot tandems, each with four people in them, quite oddly space within those confines, lillydipping ineffectively with 2 inches of freeboard.

Ads for $60,000 SUV’s, shown carrying the cheapest poly rec kayak available from Dicks. I guess that portrays a guy who spent all his money on the vehicle. Or maybe the director told the prop guy “Just buy the cheapest kayak you can find”.

I have rarely seen painters on a canoe used as an advertising prop. Nor bow and stern lines using in a roof racked SUV ad, probably for aesthetic reasons.

Seriously, an ad for a $60,000 SUV? Put a nice kevlar fusion Swift Keewaydin atop that puppy. Cialis ad, don’t put the old guy and the missus in a short pumpkinseed kayak. Not only is he not getting any tonight, he’ll be sleeping on the couch.

I hereby offer my services as Paddling and Gear consultant. No pay, just let me keep the props.

 

[GRS Riverrider]

I just got a negative comment on the first video I made on YouTube. Good to see you experienced people understand the gunwale pry. Maybe the commenter doesn't believe in a little more relaxed paddling technique. If I don't gunwale pry, I hold the paddle away from the canoe levering off an outstretched thumb tip. Not never but seldom do I push out with my arm. Is that bad? I figure why strain the arm, shoulder and back just to avoid paddle contact with the gunwale at the curve of the J. I don't slam it, but ease it in. Camera mounted to the canoe really picks the thud up though and exaggerates it.

 

[memaquay]

For normal, straight ahead paddling, proper technique is whatever moves the canoe ahead at a good pace. When i start training kids, we are usually on a trip, and after initial instruction, I attempt to get them to go in a straight line. The goon stroke is what usually works, it seems to be the most natural extension of a stern pry, and most kids can usually get it within an hour or two. The J Stroke, not so much. However, whether J'ing or gooning, most people I know use a pry off the gunwale. If you are paddling for 8 hours, why not use the advantage of a fulcrum to save your arms? I have had kids in aluminium canoes, gooning away with clunky plastic bladed paddles smashing off the gunwales, churn up a storm and zoom buy me, and have enough energy left over at the end of the day to get up to monkeyshines.

For canoe tripping, use whatever works for you and leaves you relatively unharmed at the end of the day. For youtube videos, well, you better be on your game, cause there are a million experts out there who will criticize your every stroke, but in reality, probably be too afraid to crap in the bush.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

There are amateurish and expert strokes in canoeing, sex, petting animals and other things. The lines are not clear cut.

As to canoeing, many experts advocate prying off the gunwale on a J stroke and prying off/sliding along the gunwale on the recovery of the Canadian and Northwoods strokes. While holding the paddle at what I call the "comfort angle" -- in direct rebuke of the idealized and misunderstood "vertical paddle" mantra** -- you get more efficient leverage by prying off and sliding along the gunwale for all day tripping. And it also reduces stress on the wrists and forearms.

Kathleen and I always trip with a spray deck. Prying off the gunwale on a J-stroke, or along the gunwale on the recovery of the Canadian stroke eventually wears through the vinyl deck. I found that I eventually, and somewhat subconsciously, fell into using a Pitch Stroke in the stern. This was easier on the spray cover, and less tiring than a J-stroke over the course of a day’s paddling.

 

[lowangle al]

I'm more concerned about damage to the gunnel than I am about damaging a paddle. Either way you need to be aware if you are damaging anything and make adjustments. It's one thing to cause wear over time and another to cause damage in hour or two. I can live with wear over time but if I can see the damage happening I'll make adjustments.

Some scraping or more accurately "sliding" is OK, it's the thumping that I hate. Wacking the inside of the gunnel with the blade while switching really disturbs the peace of the moment, not to mention the dings it leaves on the paddle and gunnel.

If I have a long way to go or just want to go faster I prefer to switch than use correction strokes. This is no cure for thumping and scraping but I think it helps. As the boat gets wider I have noticed that I get less scraping doing forward strokes when I use a longer paddle.

 

[recped]

I don't "thump" AT ALL, NEVER, HATE IT.

I "slide and pry" virtually on every stroke, if I really slow down and concentrate I can pull off one or two very nice j-strokes and then it's back to goonsville for me!

I managed to create a significant "dent" in the shaft of my carbon Werner Bandit without even making a tiny mark on the vinyl gunnels that most of boats have. As a temporary "fix" I've taken to wrapping the shaft with duct tape, I'm going to try some Dynel as the tape wears through quickly and the adhesive gets on my hand.

 

[yknpdlr]

I don't know, my stroke just naturally does not ever normally include any kind of clunking, sliding or prying or contact with the gunwales or any other part of the canoe with paddle shaft whether I am in stern or bow, race or recreational. It just doesn't seem necessary do do for any reason. Yet I easily paddle for hours at a time using J, Canadian, northwoods, pitch, and a variety of other strokes whether tandem C2, C4, C6, or solo. It seems to me like abuse to canoe and paddle. Just a couple of days ago during a race my stern paddler accidentally hit their paddle on the boat during a hut switch to the other side in my canoe. I said "that will cost you a quarter", the next time it will be buck followed by a beer.