Ocean One Epoxy Test

[Jim Dodd]

Forgot I had this test on my favorites. About time I shared it, to other builders !!!

http://oneoceankayaks.com/Epoxtest.htm

Jim

 

[MagicPaddler]

Thanks. Lot of good info there.
I found this one useful also.
http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/thinning-west-system-epoxy/

 

[Jim Dodd]

Thanks. Lot of good info there.
I found this one useful also.
http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/thinning-west-system-epoxy/

That is an interesting article !
While I warm up my work area and hull, as much as possible, I also warm my epoxy while mixing with a hair drier.. According to this I'm better off just warming my work piece. This is timely for me, as I'm about to glass a canoe. I'll give this technique a try.

Jim

 

[sailsman63]

Jim Dodd

Thanks for the link. ambering/UV degredation info was interesting, but the discussion of the gradually-appearing print-through issues seem to parallel some things that I observed on my last build, and to a lesser extent, the one before that. I will definitely review before glassing my nest build.

 

[goonstroke]

It's interesting that Raka stands out for being slow to cure (which obviously has pros as well as cons).

Does anyone have experience with Raka's 425 cold weather hardener? My favorite boat needs a tummy tuck but without heated workspace I've been assuming I can't do it until May.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Yes ! Wait until May, or June.
I'd stick with the 350 Non-blush hardener. It's the Blush factor I'd be concerned with.

Jim

 

[Cruiser]

Good general info, but I suspect that it likely needs to be taken in the context presented .... opinions based on this specific test regime. Since it is based on observations, that lends a lot more credibility.

Might be a good exercise for all of us that use those various products to chime in with our observations ... do they line up or have we got differing views.

I use East Systems, largely because it is made in Canada and most other brands are from the US, so it is inherently cheaper to purchase here. I like the hard finish and generally it behaves consistently. I have never had amine blush as the article suggests for this brand .... I am 4 boats in and there are some current hull pics I just posted on this forum ... no blush yet.

Brian

 

[memaquay]

I've used, MAS, West 207, System three silver tip, system three clear coat and system three general purpose. I like Silver tip the best, and MAS the least.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I like System Three's Clear Coat. Just Too expensive ! as is West.
For my blood anyway !

Jim

 

[goonstroke]

Yes ! Wait until May, or June.
I'd stick with the 350 Non-blush hardener. It's the Blush factor I'd be concerned with.

Jim

Thanks for the tip. Would you recommend the 350 non-blush hardener even in an application where clarity isn't important? This is a boat I keep painted, so a wee bit of cosmetic blush wouldn't bother me, as long as it didn't interfere with the next coat.

Raka sure has a lot of hardeners. Horses for courses I guess.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Blush is a film, that is a by product of the chemical reaction in some epoxies, It's not good for varnish, or paint. Yup 350 non-blush !
Pot life is also an issue. A short pot life can ruin a glassing job. Resin that is Too old, will kick over fast. Not a good thing when coating a large area ! I've had a few cups kick over in my hands. They get hot in a hurry !

Jim

 

[Guest]

Might be a good exercise for all of us that use those various products to chime in with our observations

I use East Systems
I have never had amine blush as the article suggests for this brand .... I am 4 boats in and there are some current hull pics I just posted on this forum ... no blush yet.

I have used West System epoxy extensively. West 205 fast hardener is deservedly notorious for amine blush. 206 slow hardener less so, depending on conditions and application.

High ambient temperatures or high humidity seem more likely to produce amine blush with West epoxies. Likewise second coating epoxy while the first coat is still tacky.

This may be a flawed observation,but starting with a warm hull and shop at moderate humidity and having the ambient temperature fall slightly as the epoxy is setting may be the least likely conditions to produce amine blush.

At this point I accept that I will wash and lightly sand any exposed area of cured West epoxy before topcoating.

I still use West resin and hardeners, mostly because I have the resin in quantity and the hardeners in variety, and I like the convenience of the pumps. And I have spare pumps.

I check the pump ratios every so often. The spare pumps come in handy. Those have been put away cleaned and checked, and when I open a fresh can of resin or hardener I put in a new pump and clean the old one.

For cleaning the resin pump Wests recommendation is to flush the resin pump with a solvent. West mentions lacquer thinner, acetone or denatured alcohol, and suggests using alcohol.

For cleaning the hardener pumps first flush with hot water, the hardener is water soluble. Then flush with alcohol.

Using those recommendations the pumps are easy to clean. I had a very old, emptish can of West 207 hardener and the pump was gummyblack and stuck. I immersed the whole sticky and dust laden pump in a bucket of hot water, then flush rinsed it a couple times with hot water, then an alcohol flush and it was like new. It was dang near magic.

Even with a single set of resin and hardener pumps it would be worth taking the time to clean them between fresh cans. Easy to check the calibration while you are flushing and pumping alcohol or water, one resin pump of water should equal five pumps of 205 or 206 hardener. Three to one with 207 or 209 hardeners.

Gflex also seems to produce amine blush at times, especially if used thickly to fill a hole or depression. Seems to because it is harder to tell if a little dot or divot feels greasy. Worth a minute with spray bottle and rags to wash that wee area before any topcoat.

I did an exposure test several years ago using various varnishes, oils and epoxy on wood. Without a UV topcoat West 206 went to heck in a years exposure to sun and weather. I have never used a UV inhabited resin or hardener, so I paint, varnish or urethane any exposed epoxy, even the stuff with pigment or graphite powder.

http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/view...p?f=49&t=40923

Jim, thanks, great link. I have read through the results several times, and probably will again.