Northstar Firebird and Savage River Illusion

[tketcham]

I'm not getting any younger and lifting canoes up and off the car rack isn't getting any easier, so I decided to put a big dent in our savings and buy a lightweight version of my fiberglass Curtis Lady Bug, which I love paddling here on New England's small quickwater streams and marshy ponds.

The two canoes that seem to be comparable are the Northstar Firebird and Savage River Illusion. I got to paddle an Illusion for a couple of days back in 2019 and I really enjoyed that boat but it's been over three years now and memories fade. I've read that the Firebird is sort of an iteration of the Lady Bug so went with the Firebird. But I haven't paddled one so my impressions and decision was based on what I've seen and read.

Has anyone here paddled a Firebird and Illusion for comparison? Just curious at this point.

Thanks for any information and opinions you can offer.

Tom

 

[GeoBoy]

I really like my Northstar Trillium, the Firebird should make a nice quick water stream boat with its increased rocker.

 

[M Clemens]

I paddled the Firebird and the Illusion briefly at the WPSCA a couple of years ago. I also had a Ladybug for a few years and I think the Firebird handled more like the Ladybug, although the Ladybug tracked a little better.

 

[billconner]

You think weight could be a factor in that handling? The Illusion is quite a bit lighter than the Firebird by online specs.

 

[yellowcanoe]

You think weight could be a factor in that handling? The Illusion is quite a bit lighter than the Firebird by online specs.

an eighth of an inch doesn't matter that much.. Archimedes.

 

[tketcham]

I also had a Ladybug for a few years and I think the Firebird handled more like the Ladybug, although the Ladybug tracked a little better.

That's what I'm wondering about. If my memory is at least partially reliable, the Illusion seemed to track a bit better than the Lady Bug. What were your impressions?

The Firebird should be a fun canoe on small streams if it's anything like the Lady Bug. I can keep the Lady Bug going in a fairly straight line so I think the Firebird will do fine for how I intend to use it on small lakes and ponds.

I really like my Northstar Trillium, the Firebird should make a nice quick water stream boat with its increased rocker.

The Trillium sounds like a great canoe and seems like it'd be similar in performance to the Hemlock Kestrel.

You think weight could be a factor in that handling? The Illusion is quite a bit lighter than the Firebird by online specs.

I thought the same thing when I first paddled the 19 lb. Illusion. But once I got in the canoe and started paddling around, the weight difference wasn't as noticeable. At least not to me.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Marc Ornstein designed the Illusion for Freestyle so it should handle rivers well.
Tracking is a function of paddlers proper forward stroke too as well as the design
Marc never had a problem with tracking with minimal correction

 

[tketcham]

yellowcanoe,​

That's what I remembered about the Illusion, for such a playful boat it tracked really well. I was learning about freestyle canoeing maneuvers when I was paddling the Illusion so wasn't even beginning to push it's limits, other than seeing how fast it could go. Marc Ornstein was able to make that canoe dance on the water. Every design is a compromise of some kind so it's a matter of figuring out what you want out of a canoe in the conditions you paddle. And then sometimes having to figure out what the canoe wants out of you.

 

[M Clemens]

You should reach out to Canoefred on this forum. I sold my Ladybug to him a few years ago and he recently sold it to get a Firebird for many of the same reasons you cite.

 

[billconner]

an eighth of an inch doesn't matter that much.. Archimedes.

I refered to weight - mid 20s to under 20 pounds - not dimensions.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I refered to weight - mid 20s to under 20 pounds - not dimensions.

The amount of sinkage (volume) of the craft depends on the weight of water displaced.. The weight of water displaced = the weight of craft and boat.

If you read specs on displacement that good canoe makers offer you will see that the four inch displacement for a Spitfire 13 ( comparable in volume to an Illusion) is 4 inch waterline 280 lbs and three inch 200 lbs. So a 10 lb weight differential for a boat carrying a load between 200 and 280 is going to be 1/8 inch.
Physics matters in canoeing.. I wish high school physics was taught via canoe.

 

[billconner]

And I was referring to the weight and inertia of the boat. Seems heavier boats like wood and canvas don't shift direction like kevlar can.

 

[Canoefred]

I'm not getting any younger and lifting canoes up and off the car rack isn't getting any easier, so I decided to put a big dent in our savings and buy a lightweight version of my fiberglass Curtis Lady Bug, which I love paddling here on New England's small quickwater streams and marshy ponds.

The two canoes that seem to be comparable are the Northstar Firebird and Savage River Illusion. I got to paddle an Illusion for a couple of days back in 2019 and I really enjoyed that boat but it's been over three years now and memories fade. I've read that the Firebird is sort of an iteration of the Lady Bug so went with the Firebird. But I haven't paddled one so my impressions and decision was based on what I've seen and read.

Has anyone here paddled a Firebird and Illusion for comparison? Just curious at this point.

Thanks for any information and opinions you can offer.

Tom

As Matt alluded to, I replaced my glass Ladybug with a Starlite Firebird last spring for the same reason, the boat was getting heavier as I drifted further into my 70s. I have not paddled an Illusion and have used the Firebird only for day trips so far, generally on still water. I would say the Ladybug tracked a little easier than the Firebird but was about 10 pounds heavier even with getting wood trim on the bird. The bird has more rocker than the bug. For longer distances I have a Hemlock Kestrel which has the differential rocker most boats have today. The Firebird is quite responsive and a fun boat for streams and play.

 

[M Clemens]

That's what I'm wondering about. If my memory is at least partially reliable, the Illusion seemed to track a bit better than the Lady Bug. What were your impressions?

I paddled many boats that day at the WPSCA on Cooper Lake and took copious notes. Of the three you speak of (Ladybug, Firebird, Illusion), the Illusion was the most agile, but hardest to hold a line. There was a bit of breeze that day and certainly no current on Cooper Lake, but the Illusion tracked more like Colden's Wildfire. At my age and in our local paddling conditions. I prefer tracking over agility.

 

[tketcham]

I have not paddled an Illusion and have used the Firebird only for day trips so far, generally on still water. I would say the Ladybug tracked a little easier than the Firebird but was about 10 pounds heavier even with getting wood trim on the bird. The bird has more rocker than the bug.

Well, I'm keeping the Lady Bug for now so I'll have the two to compare. The Firebird sounds like a more responsive hull so it'll be fun to play around and get familiar with it's idiosyncrasies.

I paddled many boats that day at the WPSCA on Cooper Lake and took copious notes. Of the three you speak of (Ladybug, Firebird, Illusion), the Illusion was the most agile, but hardest to hold a line. There was a bit of breeze that day and certainly no current on Cooper Lake, but the Illusion tracked more like Colden's Wildfire. At my age and in our local paddling conditions. I prefer tracking over agility.

Interesting. When I paddled the Illusion back in 2019, I should have also paddled the Lady Bug for a comparison while I had the chance. I hadn't owned the Lady Bug for very long so wasn't as comfortable with it as I am now and memories do fade. Plus, I also paddled a June Bug and the Illusion felt like it was tracking on a rail in comparison. (Hyperbole alert.)

Well, if I thought the Illusion was a reasonable tracker then (hopefully/probably) I'll find the Firebird to be similar on flat water. Not being able to paddle a canoe before purchasing it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most of the canoes I've purchased over the years I didn't paddle first and I've enjoyed them all. And the differences (pros/cons) start to become subtle when comparing canoes of similar design. Luckily for us, they're all fun.

 

[stevet]

When looking at solos back in the early 80’s I asked the late Ned Sharples of Canosport in Ann Arbor the difference between the Lady Bug and another model. His response shaped my purchase decisions for most of my many canoes… “The Bug will make you a better paddler”. I think canoes train us, not the other way around. They don’t change, so we must change what we do to get the most from them.

 

[M Clemens]

When looking at solos back in the early 80’s I asked the late Ned Sharples of Canosport in Ann Arbor the difference between the Lady Bug and another model. His response shaped my purchase decisions for most of my many canoes… “The Bug will make you a better paddler”. I think canoes train us, not the other way around. They don’t change, so we must change what we do to get the most from them.

Sage advice to be sure. I think the majority of us folks who part with the old classics do so because we cannot change the limitations of age and our inability to heft the old hulls anymore.

 

[Canoefred]

I think Stevet nailed it, the Firebird makes me pay attention to my forward stroke and if I do, it goes where I want it to.

 

[MartinG]

I have a Firebird. Prior to that I paddled a Kestrel. I sold the Kestrel and replaced it with a Firebird and a Magic.

My Magic is Starlight. It is for packing light, single carrying and travelling fast over lakes. I baby it because Starlight is not a durable layup. After a year and a half of owning the Magic, I don't love it. It doesn't like a stern quartering wind and it's not a comfortable fishing or photography platform. I may just need to give it more time. If I'm going out to paddle for fun, I take the Firebird.

My Firebird is IXP. It is for rivers and rougher routes. I don't baby it. Dragging up take outs and over Beaver dams. It is responsive and a lot of fun to paddle. It is a wonderful fishing and photography platform. A joy in ponds and twisty streams but capable of much more. I have no problem at all keeping it straight. It is also a great class 2 boat. It is a capable and maneuverable river runner for people who pack light. I love this boat. Recommend it to anyone looking for a fun agile do it all boat.

I don't have any video of me running rapids in this boat. But lots of paddling can be seen in this video.

 

[tketcham]

Thank you everyone for the comments. I'm looking forward to giving the Firebird a spin this spring. My preference towards the Firebird was based on it's evolution from the Lady Bug more than anything, that, and the full wood trim package. I could have gotten aluminum trim on the Firebird to save weight, but I'm becoming more enamored of wood trim after decades of paddling aluminum trimmed canoes. The Illusion can be set up with an impressive choice of layups and would have weighed less with the beautiful cherry outwales but in the end I went with the Firebird. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think I could have made a bad decision either way since the Illusion and Firebird are great little sport canoes. It'd be fun to paddle an Illusion again, just for a reminder of it's handling characteristics.

MartinG,​

Fun video; your trials and tribulations are something I can relate to. A trip to remember.

The Firebird looked like it was performing pretty well in a variety of conditions. As an aside, I have a Kestrel and really like it. I think it's a good blending of a fast, detuned racing canoe like an Advantage and a responsive sport canoe like the Lady Bug. Certainly compromises at either end of the performance spectrum (not really fast and doesn't turn on a dime) but the results make for a versatile all-around canoe. It's probably the canoe I'd keep if I had to pare down to a single canoe.