Northstar deck drainage?

[Tsuga8]

While at the ADK Canoe SYmposium this weekend, I met a fellow Northstar owner who drilled drainage holes in his decks. He claimed that rot most often appears in the stems where that last bit of water can't escape through those drainage slits farther back on the deck plates once you flip the boat over for transport and storage. I'm not sure if he was talking about this style of Northstar deck in particular or wood decks in general - I didn't think to ask at the time.

I'd like to think Northstar wouldn't be making decks like this if they're prone to rot? Has anyone experienced this issue with this particular style of deck?

 

[tketcham]

I'm not sure if he was talking about this style of Northstar deck in particular or wood decks in general - I didn't think to ask at the time.

I'd like to think Northstar wouldn't be making decks like this if they're prone to rot? Has anyone experienced this issue with this particular style of deck?

Hi, Alex, it was my canoe that you were asking about and I was referring to wood canoe decks in general, not just Northstar's. Canoe decks often include scuppers to help drain the water but those holes don't allow the water to fully drain from the ends. My opinion is based on seeing a lot of rotten canoe ends over the years. Storing canoes on the ground is sometimes stated as the cause of the rot but I see rotten decks on canoes stored up off the ground. My opinion isn't unique but there are certainly differences of opinion on the cause and solution to the problem. (See references below.)

As an example of my preference in trim design here's a photo of a 1983 Curtis canoe I bought used, with wood gunnels and no decks, and the trim is in good shape even though the canoe was taken out and used often, including whitewater. I also like the open ends because it's easy to apply a fresh coat of oil. Canoe decks make it difficult to properly oil the far ends of the inwales. Just my opinion mind you. I know a lot of people enjoy the aesthetics of wood decks so that's what sells.



For reference, here are a couple of forum threads on the subject:
https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/deck-rot-weep-holes-and-gunk-removal.106904/#post-121502
https://forums.paddling.com/t/wood-trim-question/66021/3

 

[lowangle al]

I think a drainage hole is a good idea. That being said I haven't drilled any holes in any of my decks and don't plan to for now. I have checked to see if any water has made it into the deck of my upturned boat on a rack after a heavy rain and haven't found any yet. If I did find water accumulating in there I would do something.

 

[Foxyotter]

I'd like to think Northstar wouldn't be making decks like this if they're prone to rot? Has anyone experienced this issue with this particular style of deck?

Northstar has some of the best designs on the market but not neccesarilly best build. On my Trillium the bow and stern handles weren't cut short enough and proper angle to fit and were forced into place splitting wood and crushing wood fibers. Most canoes are hardly used and it would be many years before a problem ever occurred but if you use often drilling a hole in deck would be a good idea. I wouldn't loose sleep over it. Not to knock on Northstar. I love my Trillium and have had good service through them. I just don't think their build quality matches many of their competitors.

 

[Boatman53]

I always provide some sort of drainage hole when I put on new decks a gunnels.
Jim

 

[lowangle al]

I always provide some sort of drainage hole when I put on new decks a gunnels.
Jim

View attachment 136523

It makes me wonder why it isn't a more standard procedure.

 

[Foxyotter]

It makes me wonder why it isn't a more standard procedure.

What percentage of canoes are used more then a week or maybe two per year with plenty of time to dry out in between uses? For most canoes that drain hole is unnecessary and even under heavy use it would take many years to be a problem. A more likely problem is rotting thwarts, and handles from unsealed endgrain and bolt holes which is still not standard procedure.

 

[lowangle al]

You're probably right, and way more stem damage is probably caused by leaving the boat flipped over on the ground. On the other hand if rain water is getting in and settling there I think it would be a problem in a damp environment.

 

[tketcham]

Most canoes are hardly used and it would be many years before a problem ever occurred...

That may be true, but I plan on having this canoe around for a while and using it on a regular basis. And I hope that whoever I sell it to also uses it for some time. It didn't take much to drill drain holes in the ends of the two canoes I own that have wood decks and now I know that they'll drain properly and I (and the next owner) won't have to repair rot damage.

 

[Tsuga8]

@tketcham didn't realize you're on this forum when we met in person. It was nice meeting with you and chatting last weekend!

My boat is stored inside but when life isn't too crazy, I aim for 1-2 outings per week, usually a quick pond outing before work. There's always a little water in the boat, some of which dumps when I lift it for car topping. Out of curiosity, I'm going to start checking if there's water in the stems by the time I get home. But the logic and experience here all seem sound and point towards drilling holes.

I agree with comments above on thwarts, which I jave had rot from the end with outside storage. I really don't understand why yoke and thwart ends aren't sealed more often. I was quite disappointed that my detachable Northstar yoke came with raw ends. You're not going to trim a detachable yoke to size, why wouldn't they seal the end grain when they seal the rest?

 

[tketcham]

tketcham didn't realize you're on this forum when we met in person. It was nice meeting with you and chatting last weekend!

Same here. I meant to ask you if you were aware of this technique for keeping deer from munching seedlings. PDF download links:
Sciencedirect.com - slash walls
Cornell.edu - slash walls

I really don't understand why yoke and thwart ends aren't sealed more often.

As the saying goes, "Time is money," so I'm not surprised that some manufacturers find ways to reduce production costs. And while consumer demand for aesthetically pleasing deck plates may be the main reason for using them, I think a benefit for a manufacturer to use them is that the decks hide somewhat unrefined, i.e., less expensive, float tank construction techniques. It was a bit of a surprise when I noticed it. Ah well, life is short; it's a really fun sport canoe; time to go canoeing.

 

[Foxyotter]

That may be true, but I plan on having this canoe around for a while and using it on a regular basis. And I hope that whoever I sell it to also uses it for some time. It didn't take much to drill drain holes in the ends of the two canoes I own that have wood decks and now I know that they'll drain properly and I (and the next owner) won't have to repair rot damage.

I totally agree with you I was just giving the manufactures argument. I think one of the problems with wood deck plates is that a little sand and dirt get lodged up there and hold the moisture allowing fungus to establish. Drilling a hole allows less dirt, less water and more air so a big win for longevity of deck plate.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I don't really like decks or deck plates on canoes, but if you have them, then drilling a drain hole makes a lot of sense to me.

Here are other annoying water things that can happen with canoe decks, especially those that are up-swept. If you have a little water in the canoe when you hoist the canoe on your shoulder and above your head to put it on your vehicle, some of that water can end up in the deck cavity. Then, as you drive and accelerate, the water sloshes or dribbles out from the deck cavity onto your windshield. This can also happen when a canoe is upside down on your vehicle and it starts to rain. Rain can seep under some deck caps into the cavity. A drain hole would solve some of these problems too.

 

[tketcham]

I was quite disappointed that my detachable Northstar yoke came with raw ends. You're not going to trim a detachable yoke to size, why wouldn't they seal the end grain when they seal the rest?

The yoke may have been trimmed. My hunch is that the wood components are oiled in batch, dried, and then trimmed to fit the applicable canoe(s). Maybe. And if that's the case, oiling each trimmed end must not be practicable. Again, just a WAG, based on nothing more than a hunch.

 

[lowangle al]

Most of my recent paddling has been in wood canvas boats that have open gunnels that allow me to drain all of the water out of the boat before I flip it over. On other boats with wood trim without open gunnels it is hard to drain all of the water out and I do think it drains to the decks and can become an issue in the long run.

My question in the past had been why don't they use open gunnels in all boats with wood trim, or at the least put in a scupper or two on each inwale near the center to drain water.

 

[tketcham]

My question in the past had been why don't they use open gunnels in all boats with wood trim, or at the least put in a scupper or two on each inwale near the center to drain water.

There are scuppers along the inwales of both of my canoes with end decks and the water, even with scuppers, does not completely drain out of the canoe. And to be honest, I don't stand there holding the boat on it's side long enough for it to completely drain. It's just easier to drill holes in the ends and be done with it.

 

[lowangle al]

It does take time for all the water to drain out. On my w/c boats I leave it on its side leaned up against something, usually with the bottom of the boat facing the sun to dry it out.