Interested in hearing what determines the materials you use for tripping and daily life. Boats, clothing, and gear. What's your percentage of natural and synthetic and how important is it to you?
Alan
Alan
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Material choices
- Thread starter Alan Gage
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Very little natural fibers in my kit. Mostly quality quick dry clothing and soft shell stuff and carbon fiber for the canoe and paddles and dry bags and pelican style cases for gear. Learned a long time ago that good gear can save you if times get tough. (former ice climber)
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In the summer months, I do have a mixed of natural, wool and cotton, and synthetic, mostly Patagonia Capilene stuff in different weight! Actually, same for the winter. As for boats, mainly composites of different brands and models, some old RX that will be replaced by composites when money allow! And one day I will have a W/C for tripping and hunting!
Gear, humm, that is quite the mix and match of what work best for us for where we travel and how we travel. Some traditional gear, and some not so. We only cook on fire, so no fancy gas stove that can boil water in a nano second, I wear Main hunting boot(LLBean), but the state of the art PFD, and the latest communication technology(sat phone)....
In reality, I want to slow down, and enjoy every moment that I will be in the bush, and that include my choice of gear, I like my wannigan even if some people that do portages think that it is cumbersome and heavy, I like my "traditional" wood paddles even if some think that they are so inefficient( I use to race, I know all about the bent shaft, I still own my 7oz Levass) I think more of the journey and less of the destination!!
Gear, humm, that is quite the mix and match of what work best for us for where we travel and how we travel. Some traditional gear, and some not so. We only cook on fire, so no fancy gas stove that can boil water in a nano second, I wear Main hunting boot(LLBean), but the state of the art PFD, and the latest communication technology(sat phone)....
In reality, I want to slow down, and enjoy every moment that I will be in the bush, and that include my choice of gear, I like my wannigan even if some people that do portages think that it is cumbersome and heavy, I like my "traditional" wood paddles even if some think that they are so inefficient( I use to race, I know all about the bent shaft, I still own my 7oz Levass) I think more of the journey and less of the destination!!
Man, do I agree with this! If I am lucky I'll have one, maybe two, more trips up north. You have to savor these moments we have in the woods. Life is short.
Wow, now I'm questioning exactly what is a natural material!! Glass? Carbon?
So are my boats mostly natural, being made of wood, carbon and glass?
Clothing around the house is more natural than not, lots of wool, cotton. In fact, all of my socks, in every season, are Wigwam 85% wool. Boots and shoes are mostly canvas and leather.
I do a lot of back country skiing, heavy caloric output in cold conditions, no place for natural fibers there. I make sure I'm all synthetic, an absolute must for staying dry.
Same for wilderness trips, all synthetic clothing (except my socks!) for quick drying and light weight. I even have specific underwear that's all synthetic.
Oops, just remembered that my sleeping bags are all filled with down. Can't beat it for warmth and compressibility, just gotta be careful and keep it dry.
As far as how important is the natural/synthetic relation? I don't care at all. If a particular material is better than another, like down for insulation, or polyester for clothing, then that's my pick. I never choose a material, or product, based on whether it fits into a particular category.
MDB often ridicules the way I dress, but I always tell her I dress for comfort and safety, not style.
So are my boats mostly natural, being made of wood, carbon and glass?
Clothing around the house is more natural than not, lots of wool, cotton. In fact, all of my socks, in every season, are Wigwam 85% wool. Boots and shoes are mostly canvas and leather.
I do a lot of back country skiing, heavy caloric output in cold conditions, no place for natural fibers there. I make sure I'm all synthetic, an absolute must for staying dry.
Same for wilderness trips, all synthetic clothing (except my socks!) for quick drying and light weight. I even have specific underwear that's all synthetic.
Oops, just remembered that my sleeping bags are all filled with down. Can't beat it for warmth and compressibility, just gotta be careful and keep it dry.
As far as how important is the natural/synthetic relation? I don't care at all. If a particular material is better than another, like down for insulation, or polyester for clothing, then that's my pick. I never choose a material, or product, based on whether it fits into a particular category.
MDB often ridicules the way I dress, but I always tell her I dress for comfort and safety, not style.
Oh for mittens and gloves and underwear and hats and scarves. natural.. I like down for sleeping bags. I like and excuse to knit accessories.. All wool. ( I don' t knit the underwear!)
I snowshoe now and absolutely use wool as in underlayers and insulating layers and a canvas anorak that can be cinched with a Voyageur sash and unsashed if I heat up. Synthetics make me pour sweat.. A nice advantage to the anorak is that it essentially is a house. If you do dampen a layer you can change underneath it. The canvas does deter some rain but more often than not we have pure snow..That natural fur ruff is nice too.
Down sleeping bags too.. But I don't winter camp much anymore. What did we do before synthetic dry bags?
Wooden paddles except for my little lollipop shaped Zav.. but would not turn down a carbon paddle. But I need no more..
The trouble with natural materials in the field is us. Most of us don't have the skills to dig spruce root , find and make planking etc.. Ray Rietze does but he is of old school...
I snowshoe now and absolutely use wool as in underlayers and insulating layers and a canvas anorak that can be cinched with a Voyageur sash and unsashed if I heat up. Synthetics make me pour sweat.. A nice advantage to the anorak is that it essentially is a house. If you do dampen a layer you can change underneath it. The canvas does deter some rain but more often than not we have pure snow..That natural fur ruff is nice too.
Down sleeping bags too.. But I don't winter camp much anymore. What did we do before synthetic dry bags?
Wooden paddles except for my little lollipop shaped Zav.. but would not turn down a carbon paddle. But I need no more..
The trouble with natural materials in the field is us. Most of us don't have the skills to dig spruce root , find and make planking etc.. Ray Rietze does but he is of old school...
G
Guest
Guest
Wow, there’s like six questions there.
While tripping I use and wear mostly synthetics. My boats are all plastic or composite and most of my tripping clothing is synthetic, quick dry or UV protectant, fleece, capilene, Gore-tex. The clothing exceptions are wool socks and gloves, and some fur on my winter hat. Tripping gear is again nearly all synthetic; sil-nylon tent and tarp, waterproof dry bags, plastic blue barrel, poly rope and lines, iso-butane fuel,
Gear exceptions: my spare paddle is often wood and sleeping bag is often down (nylon shell though). Other exceptions are minor; cotton bandana, wood pole, linen pillowcase. Call it 90% synthetic while tripping.
Daily life is very different. My clothing is most often cotton or cotton blend and wool, with some fleece or Gore-tex in the winter. Leather boots, cotton and wool bedding. Wood stove for most house heat. Call it 90% natural, at least in clothing; my land transport is a truck and daily gear more shop tool related.
Well, not 90%. Electric lights, plastic computer, mass produced parts and supplies. No earthen floors. It is a pretty synthetic life no matter where.
How important?
I trust the synthetic stuff to do its job, whether that is weight savings (sil-nylon vs canvas), design performance (breathable vs rubber or vinyl coated, quick dry or fleece vs cotton, UV stuff) or convenience (gas stove vs twig, blue barrel vs wannigan or canvas pack).
There is also a cost benefit ratio in those choices. I could use tech-wear clothing around the house, shop and yard but rarely do, and even then tend to use my older worn out stuff (mostly old fleece and Gore-tex). Some performance synthetics are pricey and I prefer wearing them out in the field before relegating them to home use.
X2.
Actually X3. I have Capilene long underwear in three different weights and it makes a yuge difference.
Minus one point for lack of foresight. I thought black would be the best choice to hide dirt and stains. That was shortsighted, it is kinda hard to tell them apart; black, blue and grey would have been wiser choices.
Rule number 1: Natural clothing fibres are always comfortable and durable.
Rule number 2: Man-made clothing fibres are always uncomfortable and poorly made.
Most of you from my ggggeneration will agree that things sure have changed, since we baby boomers learned to walk. Once upon a time polyester was either a fashion or a fetish. Being dressed head to toe in it no longer means you're either a lizard lounge singer or going to a wedding loud and proud. Man-made fibres have even crept into natural ones, resulting in a strange new cross hybrid of man-made and natural. Does that mean we're all likely cross-dressing and don't even know it? Material blends are making life a little easier; cotton can be stretchy, wool less scratchy. Of course this all started way before my time.
http://www.fibersource.com/f-tutor/HISTORY.htm. And now the rules no longer apply.
I still wear mostly natural fibres for the comfort, at home and tripping. But the rayon, polyester, and nylon fibres are making life easier. As far as balance, well that depends on price too. My first waterproof breathable jacket cost $400+ years ago. I'll never spend that kind of money again. Not since a campfire blew sparking kisses right through my expensive GoreTex fashion statement. What's the sense of making a fire if you have to sit 20 feet away from it lest a rogue log spit embers at you? So there'll always be a place in my clothing bag for unfashionable naturals. And like the rest of my life I have no idea what balance there'll be if any, but one thing is certain, I'm done with rules.
Rule number 2: Man-made clothing fibres are always uncomfortable and poorly made.
Most of you from my ggggeneration will agree that things sure have changed, since we baby boomers learned to walk. Once upon a time polyester was either a fashion or a fetish. Being dressed head to toe in it no longer means you're either a lizard lounge singer or going to a wedding loud and proud. Man-made fibres have even crept into natural ones, resulting in a strange new cross hybrid of man-made and natural. Does that mean we're all likely cross-dressing and don't even know it? Material blends are making life a little easier; cotton can be stretchy, wool less scratchy. Of course this all started way before my time.
http://www.fibersource.com/f-tutor/HISTORY.htm. And now the rules no longer apply.
I still wear mostly natural fibres for the comfort, at home and tripping. But the rayon, polyester, and nylon fibres are making life easier. As far as balance, well that depends on price too. My first waterproof breathable jacket cost $400+ years ago. I'll never spend that kind of money again. Not since a campfire blew sparking kisses right through my expensive GoreTex fashion statement. What's the sense of making a fire if you have to sit 20 feet away from it lest a rogue log spit embers at you? So there'll always be a place in my clothing bag for unfashionable naturals. And like the rest of my life I have no idea what balance there'll be if any, but one thing is certain, I'm done with rules.
I'm mainly synthetics as well in both tripping and daily life. The pure practicality of synthetics has always been hard for me to ignore. Low cost (usually), long lasting, light weight, low water absorption, quick to dry. Hard to find many negatives.
My canoes might have a cedar core but they're encased in a gallon and a half of plastic. Tarps and tents are silnylon, packs are nylon, plastic food barrels, fleece jackets and hats, nylon pants, paddles are carbon+resin, synthetic rain gear, plastic utensils, cordura nylon tripping boots (with some leather). Even my underwear is synthetic.
Now I'm getting into sewing and making some of my own gear and the choices of synthetic fabrics out there are just amazing. Some really neat stuff that's strong, waterproof, and reasonably priced. But I'm starting to ask myself if that's really what I want to use.
In the past the ethics of using synthetic over natural fibers didn't bother me in the least. Then it started to bother me a little. Lately it's been bothering me more. I know that little old me using synthetic fabrics to make my own gear isn't going to send the planet down the toilet and plug up the landfills but it bothers me anyway and we've all gotta do what makes us happy in the end.
So I started looking at natural fibers that could fill some of these rolls and was disappointed to find them difficult to source and quite expensive. I can get wool cloth but when compared to synthetics it's hardly cheap at $20+ per yard. Ventile, a very tightly wove and weather resistant cotton made in the UK, similar to Egyptian Cotton, sounded promising until I tried to actually find some for sale. Buying direct from the manufacturer appears to be about the only option. It's already very expensive ($60/yard?) and then there's shipping from Europe on top of that.
So what's a newly cloth conscience fella to do? Looking for some input from those of you who are using more "traditional" materials about what works and where to get it.
I think I'll start migrating my way back to natural fabrics a little at a time and see how it goes. It's hard to swallow but I might have to travel a little heavier, bulkier, and slower. We'll see how that goes. I'm sure I can never completely get away from synthetics, especially since it seems many suitable natural fibers are nearly extinct, at least from a production standpoint, but I think I'll feel better incorporating as much natural materials as I can. Maybe I'll look into buying more used tripping gear and recycling synthetic gear/fabrics that are heading to the land fill. Hard to feel guilty about that.
Alan
My canoes might have a cedar core but they're encased in a gallon and a half of plastic. Tarps and tents are silnylon, packs are nylon, plastic food barrels, fleece jackets and hats, nylon pants, paddles are carbon+resin, synthetic rain gear, plastic utensils, cordura nylon tripping boots (with some leather). Even my underwear is synthetic.
Now I'm getting into sewing and making some of my own gear and the choices of synthetic fabrics out there are just amazing. Some really neat stuff that's strong, waterproof, and reasonably priced. But I'm starting to ask myself if that's really what I want to use.
In the past the ethics of using synthetic over natural fibers didn't bother me in the least. Then it started to bother me a little. Lately it's been bothering me more. I know that little old me using synthetic fabrics to make my own gear isn't going to send the planet down the toilet and plug up the landfills but it bothers me anyway and we've all gotta do what makes us happy in the end.
So I started looking at natural fibers that could fill some of these rolls and was disappointed to find them difficult to source and quite expensive. I can get wool cloth but when compared to synthetics it's hardly cheap at $20+ per yard. Ventile, a very tightly wove and weather resistant cotton made in the UK, similar to Egyptian Cotton, sounded promising until I tried to actually find some for sale. Buying direct from the manufacturer appears to be about the only option. It's already very expensive ($60/yard?) and then there's shipping from Europe on top of that.
So what's a newly cloth conscience fella to do? Looking for some input from those of you who are using more "traditional" materials about what works and where to get it.
I think I'll start migrating my way back to natural fabrics a little at a time and see how it goes. It's hard to swallow but I might have to travel a little heavier, bulkier, and slower. We'll see how that goes. I'm sure I can never completely get away from synthetics, especially since it seems many suitable natural fibers are nearly extinct, at least from a production standpoint, but I think I'll feel better incorporating as much natural materials as I can. Maybe I'll look into buying more used tripping gear and recycling synthetic gear/fabrics that are heading to the land fill. Hard to feel guilty about that.
Alan
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I'm with you Alan, especially from from 5th paragraph down, and really, a lot of the natural finer out there are not much more ecological than synthetic. there is a few choices, to by fabric that as been made out of recycle plastic, Patagonia, again, are the leader in that field.
I'm switching to Eco-Poxy now for all my epoxy needs, I don't use much of it since I don't built boat yet... I know some boat maker have used hemp cloth with some success!!
Most interesting fabrics are made in europe, and are expensive since therein very little demand. TentCate is an other one to look at, they claim that they achieve fire and mildew protection w/o the armful chemicals that are usually use!!
In my case, and I'm quite anal about this kind of stuff, I try to buy organic cotton when ever I can, and encourage companies that have ethics practices! And in that case you can't go wrong with Patagonia, I don't mind buying something made in china from them cause I know they do the thing right!! After all, on black friday they totalled $10 000 000 in sales and the entire amount was given to grass routs environmental protection organisation!!
I know some people g for the cheapest they can buy, quality is not a factor and they just throw it out and buy more when needed, I buy the best quality I can afford, make it last by fixing it and repurpose it and then when it is no longer possible to do anything with it I hope I can recycle it!
Oh doesn't it make your head spin!
Kevin Kinney at Empire Canvas was selling some Ventile. He advertised it on Wintertrekking.com
Checkout Fairfield Textiles for good quality cotton in the USA.
One of the most serious problems with synthetics, particularly fleece, are the microfibres that get washed down the drain each time they are washed. They end up in aquatic ecosystems and are eaten by aquatic organisms and can block the intestinal tract or become incorporated into body tissue.
I think top loader machines are worse for this as they are aggressive on clothes.
I have to admit that I am guilty of creating demand for stuff, but that is often because I buy something and find it just doesn't perform as intended so have to find something else. My biggest problem is with base layer tops that come up short in back length. I have a closet full of tops that come untucked when I bend over. Really must take them to the thrift store.
Kevin Kinney at Empire Canvas was selling some Ventile. He advertised it on Wintertrekking.com
Checkout Fairfield Textiles for good quality cotton in the USA.
One of the most serious problems with synthetics, particularly fleece, are the microfibres that get washed down the drain each time they are washed. They end up in aquatic ecosystems and are eaten by aquatic organisms and can block the intestinal tract or become incorporated into body tissue.
I think top loader machines are worse for this as they are aggressive on clothes.
I have to admit that I am guilty of creating demand for stuff, but that is often because I buy something and find it just doesn't perform as intended so have to find something else. My biggest problem is with base layer tops that come up short in back length. I have a closet full of tops that come untucked when I bend over. Really must take them to the thrift store.
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The best top I ever own and still do is this stuff called BRYNJE Arctic underwear Made in Norway. http://www.brynje-shop.com/en/sportswear~c13/brynje-arctic-double-zip-polo-10401220-p7012
The one I have is really long in the body, and have a long tail at the back!! Wick moisture like noting else and is quite warm for the weight!!
The one I have is really long in the body, and have a long tail at the back!! Wick moisture like noting else and is quite warm for the weight!!
I go mostly with synthetic clothing most of the year - until the winter weather gets harsh, or I'm going skiing or snow camping. I like synthetic layers, but I've found that good wool is easier to live with in real harsh cold. It's expensive, but long wearing and durable - so it's actually very cost efficient. As a matter of practice and practicality, I spend a lot of time in combinations of wool and synthetics.
I hate both wool and cotton socks though.
Aren't all of our boats synthetic to some degree or another? Except the odd birch bark canoe or seal skin kayak?
I hate both wool and cotton socks though.
Aren't all of our boats synthetic to some degree or another? Except the odd birch bark canoe or seal skin kayak?
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