I’d like to see your wood (gunwales that is), plus a question

[ABT]

I have a new boat coming in early March (Northstar Polaris), and it will be my first time with wood gunwales. I’m still pretty new to the world beyond all plastic or aluminum boats, and I’d love to see how others’ wood trim is holding up over time. I have seen some photos online of boats (from various manufacturers) that look fairly new (year or two old) where the gunwales look like they are already starting to gray, and other boats that are much older that still look pretty good. Some of this I know comes down to basic maintenance (oil reapplication), but those cases where the boats are still pretty new are a little concerning to me.

This leads me to the question part as I did a search and couldn’t find quite what I was looking for.

Northstar recommends watco exterior natural oil, Hemlock’s site mentions Watco Teak Oil, and I’m sure others use something similar, etc. but generally all other wood parts are “varnished”, I’m assuming with a spar urethane. I actually asked Bear at Northstar why they don’t use an exterior urethane on gunwales when ordering my boat, and he basically said it would be very difficult to do in their manufacturing process which I can definitely understand. I can see how it would be much more time consuming and labor intensive, and unlike seats/hangers/etc. it would probably be better done after they are on the boat rather than before, causing quite the manufacturing delay. I think this is probably a good compromise to keep boats from being even more expensive. He also mentioned difficulty of refinishing for the user vs the ease of wiping on more oil, which is also a very valid point.

However, I can’t help but think it would still be better protection and would not need to be redone at nearly the same frequency. Additionally, oil based urethane’s are able to be applied over hardening oils (if they’re good and cured), so you could get your gunwhales oiled with several coats and then urethane over them, getting the benefits of both a penetrating hardening oil, and a tough, highly UV resistant outer urethane layer. Right?

So how are yours holding up, oiled, urethaned, or otherwise, and has anyone here ever done urethane over oil?

Thanks,

ABT

 

[MrPoling]

Congratulations on the new canoe. I'd store it indoors and do whatever Northstar says to help prevent rot.

It is curious, paddles are normally urethane or varnished and they get about the same flex and abuse as gunwales.

I haven't tried urethane on gunwales, but I have a Mad River Explorer with painted aluminum gunwales. The roof racks rip the paint off pretty quickly.

If you were doing it yourself then I'd say go for urethane or whatever you think best.

I used treated lumber on my old beater. It was mangled and wasn't worth sourcing, buying, and building with ash or cherry. The treated wood has been fine for at least 15 years, including a year flipped over on the ground.
In this picture the cherry thwart needs urethane but the gunwales are fine.

Enjoy the Polaris!

 

[stevet]

Always used Watco oil…40 years, 30+ boats. Never had a problem but they have always been stored under roof. Not much care required to keep them looking brand new. Just clean them when they get dirty…don’t let them sit for months then clean. Ease of application is an important aspect for me, and I prefer the grain enhancement yet natural look it produces.

Protection is fine with either product you choose, just be assiduous about maintenance. My 1995 Wildfire…

 

[memaquay]

On the gunwales I build, I always coat the entire gunwale with a sealing coat of epoxy first. After I install it, it gets three to five coats of marine varnish, whatever the hull is getting. Maintenance is really just re-varnishing areas of use and abuse as needed.

Using oil is practical and easy if you keep up the maintenance schedule, but I prefer a more permanent treatment.

 

[tketcham]

So how are yours holding up, oiled, urethaned, or otherwise, and has anyone here ever done urethane over oil?

I've enjoyed the low maintenance aspect of aluminum trim but have come to appreciate the aesthetics and feel (and sound) of wood trim. It's a bit more maintenance and care but not so much that it's a hassle. I think storing the canoe out of the weather when not in use is key. If maintained and stored well, oiled wood trim will hold up for decades; I have two canoes that are about 40 years old and the oiled wood is in good shape and has a beautiful patina. I don't have photos of the trim but will try to take some when it warms up a bit in the garage.

Oiled gunwales and trim are pretty easy to wipe down and re-oil at the beginning of the season, a time or two mid-season if the wood looks dry, and just before winter storage if needed. I use Watco Teak oil because that's what Dave Curtis (Curtis/Hemlock Canoes) recommended. Personally, I don't care for varnish or urethane finishes because when they start wearing out they look bad and can be a pain to refurbish, but it does have advantages, as memaquay mentioned.

Also, I drilled a 1/2 in. hole in the deck ends of my canoes to provide drainage. I often see rotten decks and gunwale ends because water and gunk gets trapped there if there's insufficient drainage.

 

[Benson Gray]

I prefer traditional marine spar varnish. It has a longer maintenance cycle than oil alone and is easier to fix than urethane or epoxy when it eventually fails. This is part of what helped the canoe shown in the picture below survive for over a century. The link below has more details about this canoe. Good luck,

Benson

Old Town Canoe Molitor Model from 1922

This is an example of an seventeen foot long Molitor model in AA grade from the Old Town Canoe Company that was built in 1922 with open gunwales.

forums.wcha.org

 

[tketcham]

What is the typical life span of marine spar varnish canoe trim? And do you have to completely sand down the original coat?

I used marine spar varnish on my old wood/rawhide snowshoes and was impressed at how well it worked but then I would just apply more varnish without sanding. Wasn't pretty but it worked.

 

[Benson Gray]

What is the typical life span of marine spar varnish canoe trim? And do you have to completely sand down the original coat?

This depends on a huge number of factors and sanding the old varnish away completely is not always required. The people at the link below claim three to eight years. I tend to take very good care of my canoes and have not yet had to revarnish one after the restoration. My longest use has been an Old Town Molitor that I got from the factory in 1982. It travelled to Arizona and back. This has been used regularly on many trips in rivers, lakes, and the ocean. The exterior has been repainted and one seat's cane has been replaced but the interior varnish hasn't needed attention yet as shown in the picture below. The outside is shown at https://forums.wcha.org/attachments/5305/ and https://forums.wcha.org/attachments/7787/ has the build record. However, I'm probably not a 'typical' canoe user though.

Benson

How long does marine spar varnish last?

Answer: I assume you are talking about it being in a marine environment. Right? But first, It depends on the environment. Direct sunlight will reduce it’s life. Hard service, involving ware will cause rub spots which need immediate repair with several coast of varnish. If a varnish coat reaches ...

www.quora.com

 

[gumpus]

It sounds like you want the low maintenance of varnish. I much prefer the look and feel of an oil finish but I also left the varnish on the last 2 used boats I bought because the durability is nice and it's a lot of work to remove the varnish. If I stored a boat with wood trim outside it would be varnished.

If you see pics with gray wood that means the wood has been bone dry for some time. In my experience even in that case a good sanding brings it right back.

I've used both types of Watco in the past and both work fine. I stopped using Watco since it's toxic and takes forever to dry...now I use Badger wood oil. One reason that Watco is durable for an oil finish is that it contains some varnish. I think you'd be fine varnishing over it if you like.

Pics show my Keewaydin 15 getting a tune-up on the oil finish. It does not take much time at all to refresh all the wood with a light sanding and 2-3 coats of oil.

 

[ABT]

Congratulations on the new canoe. I'd store it indoors and do whatever Northstar says to help prevent rot.

It is curious, paddles are normally urethane or varnished and they get about the same flex and abuse as gunwales.

I haven't tried urethane on gunwales, but I have a Mad River Explorer with painted aluminum gunwales. The roof racks rip the paint off pretty quickly.

If you were doing it yourself then I'd say go for urethane or whatever you think best.

I used treated lumber on my old beater. It was mangled and wasn't worth sourcing, buying, and building with ash or cherry. The treated wood has been fine for at least 15 years, including a year flipped over on the ground.
In this picture the cherry thwart needs urethane but the gunwales are fine.

Enjoy the Polaris!

View attachment 144839

I was kind of thinking the same thing with the paddles, they see similar abuse and my varnished paddles seem to be holding up better than my single oiled paddle, which already needs some attention after ~6mo. The varnished ones seem like they’ll be good for a long while yet.

Also, I would never have thought treated lumber would have an application on a canoe, but I have to say it looks much better than I thought it would and seems to be holding up very well. Looks like it worked out well for keeping that one in service!

 

[ABT]

Always used Watco oil…40 years, 30+ boats. Never had a problem but they have always been stored under roof. Not much care required to keep them looking brand new. Just clean them when they get dirty…don’t let them sit for months then clean. Ease of application is an important aspect for me, and I prefer the grain enhancement yet natural look it produces.

Protection is fine with either product you choose, just be assiduous about maintenance. My 1995 Wildfire…
View attachment 144842

Looking at that I would have never guessed it was a 30 year old boat, it looks fantastic. That’s good to know about the Watco and definitely gives me confidence in it. I am lucky that I have a detached garage/workshop to keep my boats in (installed a mini split with a buddy a couple years ago so it’s even climate controlled!). No matter which way I go I hope my boats look as good as yours in 30 years.

 

[ABT]

On the gunwales I build, I always coat the entire gunwale with a sealing coat of epoxy first. After I install it, it gets three to five coats of marine varnish, whatever the hull is getting. Maintenance is really just re-varnishing areas of use and abuse as needed.

Using oil is practical and easy if you keep up the maintenance schedule, but I prefer a more permanent treatment.

I am of a similar mindset, I usually like more permanent solutions. Even though I may have the time now to keep up with frequent maintenance, I’d like to have the insurance that if I have a lapse I don’t create a lot more work for myself to get it back into good shape. I read through your Raven build and if that’s the approach you took there it certainly turned out great.

 

[ABT]

I prefer traditional marine spar varnish. It has a longer maintenance cycle than oil alone and is easier to fix than urethane or epoxy when it eventually fails. This is part of what helped the canoe shown in the picture below survive for over a century. The link below has more details about this canoe. Good luck,

Benson

Old Town Canoe Molitor Model from 1922

This is an example of an seventeen foot long Molitor model in AA grade from the Old Town Canoe Company that was built in 1922 with open gunwales.

forums.wcha.org

View attachment 144845

Boy that one is a beauty. I had not considered that as an option but it sounds like it may be a good “in between” option. It has certainly stood the test of time on that one. I’ll have to do some more research on the traditional marine varnishes.

 

[Patrick Corry]

It's my understanding that traditional spar varnish provides a finish that does not harden to the point of being brittle unlike urethane finishes, thereby providing a somewhat elastic protection for wood parts that expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity.

 

[ABT]

It sounds like you want the low maintenance of varnish. I much prefer the look and feel of an oil finish but I also left the varnish on the last 2 used boats I bought because the durability is nice and it's a lot of work to remove the varnish. If I stored a boat with wood trim outside it would be varnished.

If you see pics with gray wood that means the wood has been bone dry for some time. In my experience even in that case a good sanding brings it right back.

I've used both types of Watco in the past and both work fine. I stopped using Watco since it's toxic and takes forever to dry...now I use Badger wood oil. One reason that Watco is durable for an oil finish is that it contains some varnish. I think you'd be fine varnishing over it if you like.

Pics show my Keewaydin 15 getting a tune-up on the oil finish. It does not take much time at all to refresh all the wood with a light sanding and 2-3 coats of oil.

View attachment 144849View attachment 144850

Holy Cow! Those pictures are night and day different, it really brought that wood to life. I really appreciate the side by side before/after.

I am definitely leaning towards the lower maintenance of the varnish right now but I am still undecided. As I mentioned above in one of my other replies, I have a single oiled paddle (I’ll mention it is a Badger since you referenced their oil) and it is definitely in need of some maintenance after ~6mo of use, whereas my varnished paddles used roughly the same amount (and harder in some cases) still look new. The Badger is arguably my prettiest paddle though and I do like that their finish is non-toxic. Our Ozark streams are crystal clear, fairly pristine, and are somewhat delicate environments, so that is a definite plus for me.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I started Capping my shearline, years ago. I didn't like seeing the hull and fiberglass, exposed to the elements.
It made me worry about rot and delamination. From then, I've always capped the shearline.

So I glue and screw, the inwhale, and glue the outwhale. No screws are showing. No place for water to infiltrate the gunnels and rot.

I've used Watco. Yes it takes a long time to dry , especially, the way I do it. One light coat, then a heavy coat, and no wiping.

If you scratch Varnish, you will see a white mark. Not so with Watco.

 

[Jmharrick]

I have a 1986 Curtis Northstar and a 1993 Mad River Explorer. Both have original ash gunwales. The wood on the Northstar looked brand new when I got it a year and a half ago. The mad river was stored covered outside and was dirty and dry. After sanding and oil the wood on the mad river looks brand new.

I use watco teak oil once a year to keep things from drying out. Haven’t had any issues

The portage yoke on the mad river explorer had a few coats of urethane on it and you could see where moisture had penetrated after it got scratched and then got trapped. The surface of the wood started to rot under the urethane. It was a pain in the butt to sand all that off. I oiled it after and it looks brand new.

First picture is Explorer, second picture is Northstar. Third picture is a 1980’s Curtis Dragonfly that has had several owners and years of hard use. That is the original wood and I haven’t had a chance to sand and oil. Still looks pretty good and will look brand new when I do.

 

[ABT]

I've used Watco. Yes it takes a long time to dry , especially, the way I do it. One light coat, then a heavy coat, and no wiping.

If you scratch Varnish, you will see a white mark. Not so with Watco.

After sanding and oil the wood on the mad river looks brand new.

I use watco teak oil once a year to keep things from drying out. Haven’t had any issues

The portage yoke on the mad river explorer had a few coats of urethane on it and you could see where moisture had penetrated after it got scratched and then got trapped. The surface of the wood started to rot under the urethane. It was a pain in the butt to sand all that off. I oiled it after and it looks brand new.

Another couple of positives in the oiled finish column and a solid negative for the urethane. Good info, and much appreciated. This has all been just the type of first hand info I was looking for.

 

[DaleS]

My photo in today’s photo of the day is a 1986 Curtis Northstar, it’s wood trim has only ever seen Watco Oil. I like it.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I prefer to use Watco Teak oil, but my Malecite came with varnished gunwales so I maintain them with same. I've only had to revarnish once since I bought it used many years ago, but it does spend the vast majority of it's time hanging in my garage.

When I bought my Wildfire, the gunwales were dry as a bone, but not gray. I sanded them and treated them with Watco Teak. I'd post a photo, but for some reason the ones on my phone are hiding from me. Anyway, it looks pretty much like the wood in Stevet's Wildfire photo above.

The rails on my Millbrook Coho get neglected and are overdue for teak oil, which I'll do as soon as I'm done modifying the bag cage. You don't want a photo of it right now.