Hey from Western PA!

[Allegheny Tom]

Hello!
I'm been lurking for a few weeks now so I thought I'd join the group.
My wife and I have been paddling for 50+ years but we didn't really have boat control skills until about 20 years ago when we joined 3 Rivers Paddling club and learned just how little we knew for those 1st 30 years. We still have a lot to learn but we no longer bicker like in the early days. We've open boated up to class 3 and we've also done some great raft trips up to class 5.
We day paddle, and we love to do multi day trips but we don't get out as often as we'd like. 2 canoe household...Wenonah Rogue in royalex for running rivers and a Wenonah Escape in carbon for flatwater.
We are beginning to be frustrated with BWCA permitting system and now the prohibition on blue barrels for food storage so we are looking for advice on some other wilderness trips. Maine is on my radar.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Tom, welcome to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

We have many members from your general area, and there are lots of paddling places other than the BWCA discussed in our many and ever-expanding trip threads and paddling destination threads. You have nice tandems for both white and flat water.

 

[Boatman53]

Welcome to the campfire, Tom. I’m not planning to go back to the BWCA this fall either.
Jim

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Welcome to the campfire, Tom. I’m not planning to go back to the BWCA this fall either.
Jim

Thanks Jim.
We pretty much decided that this will be our last trip to B.W.
We have a launch permit for next month.
N Fowl lake was our "plan D". We were logged in at the very moment they opened for permits and our plans A, B, and C were instantly sold out!
Then, we go on to learn just last month they issued a new food storage order...gotta hang now. Blue barrels are no longer "approved". It would have been nice if they implemented the new rule BEFORE they started charging people for the launch permits.
And the campsite system gives my wife anxiety. What happens when you can't find an open campsite?
I'm hoping you good folks on this site will share some suggestions for alternative trips.

 

[recped]

We are beginning to be frustrated with BWCA permitting system and now the prohibition on blue barrels for food storage so we are looking for advice on some other wilderness trips. Maine is on my radar.

Have you considered crossing the border and looking at an area like Wabakimi or the surrounding area. Wabakimi requires permits but no restrictions on where you camp. The surrounding land is essentially crown land, non-residents do require a permit but otherwise you can go just about anywhere at any time on any schedule. There are literally hundreds or even thousands of possible routes in that area. The Wabakimi area is well documented the surrounding area as well but not to the same extent.You would not encounter many other people there.

Another area in Canada a bit closer than Maine is Northwest of Montreal, either in La Verendrye Park or surrounding, in the park you won't see many people there after the first portage.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Have you considered crossing the border and looking at an area like Wabakimi or the surrounding area. Wabakimi requires permits but no restrictions on where you camp. The surrounding land is essentially crown land, non-residents do require a permit but otherwise you can go just about anywhere at any time on any schedule. There are literally hundreds or even thousands of possible routes in that area. The Wabakimi area is well documented the surrounding area as well but not to the same extent.You would not encounter many other people there.

Another area in Canada a bit closer than Maine is Northwest of Montreal, either in La Verendrye Park or surrounding, in the park you won't see many people there after the first portage.

I'm starting to consider Canada. I know we can't talk politics here but I will say this. Canada didn't give me the warm and fuzzies during covid.
Do you have to show proof of vax to cross the border?

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I know we can't talk politics here but . . . . Do you have to show proof of vax to cross the border?

That's a very legitimate factual question, not requiring a politics answer. I don't personally know the answer. Others should.

 

[Gamma1214]

Hmm... if we keep picking up Yinzers, I may have to revise my long-held assertion that I don't live in "canoe country".

As I'm sure you're aware, there's nothing like the BWCA nearby but the Adirondacks aren't too far away, the Allegheny river from Warren to Parker (or Emlenton) is a nice, no portage, 4 day trip, Clarion river is a good 3 day with a little faster water and, of course, the West Branch of the Susquehanna is great if it's been raining.

Personally, for the longer trips, I've been heading up thru Sault Ste Marie and doing crown land routes in Ontario. Speaking of which, if you want to stay more on the beaten path, Algonquin, Temagami & Killarney are probably about the same drive time as the BW (maybe less) and the site could use a few more trip reports from Temagami & Killarney. For that matter, Quetico is right across the border from the BW and only gets a fraction of the people.

If you want to stay in the states, maybe Michigan's upper peninsula. Big Island wilderness gets some press but, I think, most of the UP is Nat'l Forest so dispersed, minimum impact camping is likely permitted (I think you can only stay 1 or 2 nights before changing sites).

Anyone up that way (@jdeerfoot or @JCH_Ski?) care to verify or clarify the UP rules?

Do you have to show proof of vax to cross the border?

No. I'm also in the control group and they did not ask last year.

Whichever way you wander, welcome to the site.

 

[recped]

I'm starting to consider Canada. I know we can't talk politics here but I will say this. Canada didn't give me the warm and fuzzies during covid.
Do you have to show proof of vax to cross the border?

Crossing the border during Covid was not warm and fuzzy no matter which direction you were going.

ALL the border restrictions due to Covid went away on October 1 2022. The only remaining thing is that you would need a passport because it's a requirement of CPB to return to the US. When crossing by road there are some approved alternatives to a passport, by air a passport is mandatory.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Hmm... if we keep picking up Yinzers, I may have to revise my long-held assertion that I don't live in "canoe country".

As I'm sure you're aware, there's nothing like the BWCA nearby but the Adirondacks aren't too far away, the Allegheny river from Warren to Parker (or Emlenton) is a nice, no portage, 4 day trip, Clarion river is a good 3 day with a little faster water and, of course, the West Branch of the Susquehanna is great if it's been raining.

Personally, for the longer trips, I've been heading up thru Sault Ste Marie and doing crown land routes in Ontario. Speaking of which, if you want to stay more on the beaten path, Algonquin, Temagami & Killarney are probably about the same drive time as the BW (maybe less) and the site could use a few more trip reports from Temagami & Killarney. For that matter, Quetico is right across the border from the BW and only gets a fraction of the people.

If you want to stay in the states, maybe Michigan's upper peninsula. Big Island wilderness gets some press but, I think, most of the UP is Nat'l Forest so dispersed, minimum impact camping is likely permitted (I think you can only stay 1 or 2 nights before changing sites).

Anyone up that way (@jdeerfoot or @JCH_Ski?) care to verify or clarify the UP rules?



No. I'm also in the control group and they did not ask last year.

Whichever way you wander, welcome to the site.

We did a short paddle trip in the Adirondacks a few years ago. It was nice and my wife wants to go back. It is on our list but I'm just not sure of my way around up there...which lakes, routes, camping regs, etc. We are not "anti-motor" but we would rather be in paddle-only lakes or rivers.
I've been on the Allegheny all my life. We've paddled it from Kinzua all the way to dam 9 and a little below it too. Pool #9 has become an absolute zoo with power boats, but the upper Allegheny is still pretty nice. Can't believe how bad the knotweed is. It makes camping difficult in some areas.
Been on the Clarion a lot when I was young.
W Branch Sus is on our to do list but we just haven't made it happen yet.
Did the Upper Delaware a few years ago, we liked that too.
Wherever we decide to go, smallmouth is a definite plus. I love fishing for them.
Been thinking more and more about Canada, specifically Quetico but I need to learn more.
We love river trips but I'm getting too old to portage my royalex very far.
I'm good carrying my Escape but I'm not going to take that boat down a rocky river.
Portaging is not my favorite thing to do but I'm willing if it's not too brutal.
Some of those Canada YouTubers blow my mind with the portages they do with 80 pound boats and 30 days of gear!
MI, WI, and ME are states we'd like to explore...just not sure where to go.

 

[jdeerfoot]

Sounds like you tired of the BWCA just like me. For the past 17 years I have paddled mostly in Canada. I tired of the crowds, campsite competition, rules, etc, etc.

So welcome to the forum and maybe get acquainted with Gamma1214 who has expanded his trips into Canada - “the great white north, where the beer tastes stronger and the snow lasts longer”, as they used say.

 

[stripperguy]

I’ve spent a lifetime paddling Adirondack waters, haven’t gotten bored yet. There’s plenty of spots that are motor free and provide all the solitude you could ever want.
There are a number of us here that could suggest routes or destinations that you and your wife will enjoy.
Oh, and welcome to the forum!

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I’ve spent a lifetime paddling Adirondack waters, haven’t gotten bored yet. There’s plenty of spots that are motor free and provide all the solitude you could ever want.
There are a number of us here that could suggest routes or destinations that you and your wife will enjoy.
Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Thanks and thanks!
So, should I start a new discussion over on the "destinations" page?
I have lots of questions and also some input on what type of trip we are looking for.
I guess I don't need to clutter up this thread with trip discussions.

 

[jdeerfoot]

Hmm... if we keep picking up Yinzers, I may have to revise my long-held assertion that I don't live in "canoe country".

As I'm sure you're aware, there's nothing like the BWCA nearby but the Adirondacks aren't too far away, the Allegheny river from Warren to Parker (or Emlenton) is a nice, no portage, 4 day trip, Clarion river is a good 3 day with a little faster water and, of course, the West Branch of the Susquehanna is great if it's been raining.

Personally, for the longer trips, I've been heading up thru Sault Ste Marie and doing crown land routes in Ontario. Speaking of which, if you want to stay more on the beaten path, Algonquin, Temagami & Killarney are probably about the same drive time as the BW (maybe less) and the site could use a few more trip reports from Temagami & Killarney. For that matter, Quetico is right across the border from the BW and only gets a fraction of the people.

If you want to stay in the states, maybe Michigan's upper peninsula. Big Island wilderness gets some press but, I think, most of the UP is Nat'l Forest so dispersed, minimum impact camping is likely permitted (I think you can only stay 1 or 2 nights before changing sites).

Anyone up that way (@jdeerfoot or @JCH_Ski?) care to verify or clarify the UP rules?



No. I'm also in the control group and they did not ask last year.

Whichever way you wander, welcome to the site.

I just came back from Canada last week - no special requirements to enter, just the usual questions about money, guns, purpose of visit, for how long and where. Over the years I have found it seems to help when you mention you will be using an outfitter, renting something, in other words spending $ there. And remember you can get into Canada with any valid id, but you will need a passport to get back into the states.

Regarding the UP, lots of National Forest land and campsites, the western UP is almost all NF. If you don't have one, be sure to get a National Parks/Fed Rec Lands Pass - Senior Pass (assuming you are 62 or older). My one time cost was $10.00 for a lifetime pass which entitles you to half price camping fees and free day entry to many national parks/federal lands. Now I think the Senior Pass is a one-time $80.00. This pass has saved me a lot of $ - especially when my daughter lived in California with its many parks.

Some nice areas (federal lands) in the UP have no fees. A lot of info available on the websites of the National Forests under the recreation section.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I just came back from Canada last week - no special requirements to enter, just the usual questions about money, guns, purpose of visit, for how long and where. Over the years I have found it seems to help when you mention you will be using an outfitter, renting something, in other words spending $ there. And remember you can get into Canada with any valid id, but you will need a passport to get back into the states.

Regarding the UP, lots of National Forest land and campsites, the western UP is almost all NF. If you don't have one, be sure to get a National Parks/Fed Rec Lands Pass - Senior Pass (assuming you are 62 or older). My one time cost was $10.00 for a lifetime pass which entitles you to half price camping fees and free day entry to many national parks/federal lands. Now I think the Senior Pass is a one-time $80.00. This pass has saved me a lot of $ - especially when my daughter lived in California with its many parks.

Some nice areas (federal lands) in the UP have no fees. A lot of info available on the websites of the National Forests under the recreation section.

Thanks!
I just started a new thread on the destinations page. I gave some details about us in order to help people if they decide to give input.
We have that lifetime senior pass.
UP routes would be fantastic. We drive through there to/from BWCA mostly to avoid driving thru Chicago, but we now realize how beautiful the UP is. Wouldn't mind spending some time there.

 

[Stoney Oats]

...the Allegheny river from Warren to Parker (or Emlenton) is a nice, no portage, 4 day trip...

+1 for the Allegheny. I did the stretch from Buckaloons down to President for my bachelor party a couple months ago, and while it ain't no BWCA, it definitely scratched the itch in a busy year where I can't do anything more ambitious.

 

[dbogey]

Hello!
I'm been lurking for a few weeks now so I thought I'd join the group.
My wife and I have been paddling for 50+ years but we didn't really have boat control skills until about 20 years ago when we joined 3 Rivers Paddling club and learned just how little we knew for those 1st 30 years. We still have a lot to learn but we no longer bicker like in the early days. We've open boated up to class 3 and we've also done some great raft trips up to class 5.
We day paddle, and we love to do multi day trips but we don't get out as often as we'd like. 2 canoe household...Wenonah Rogue in royalex for running rivers and a Wenonah Escape in carbon for flatwater.
We are beginning to be frustrated with BWCA permitting system and now the prohibition on blue barrels for food storage so we are looking for advice on some other wilderness trips. Maine is on my radar.

Tom - I'm in Squirrel Hill. I love to chat over a coffee sometime about potential routes. Alqonquin gets a bad rap for being overcrowded, but you must pick a good time and route to avoid crowds. My son and I did 6 days out of Canoe Lake and saw very few people in May. After we got onto Burntroot, we only saw one other party for the next 3 days. We had Phillip and Radiant Lake all to ourselves. Temagami is a beautiful area to paddle and you can put together numerous routes. I'm heading back up in a few weeks to explore more in the Twinkle Lake area. Another suggestion is Wabakimi. My son and I did 12 days starting at Burntrock down to Tamarack where Bruce Hyer picked us up. We had a float plane drop us off. Only saw one other party in 12 days there. The Daks (Adirondacks) look promising and I've picked up a few route books but have not made the plunge on going but probably should soon.
Dan.

 

[Denin208]

Welcome to the forum

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Thanks!
Living the dream right now near BWCA.
Camping, paddling, portaging, and fishing.
Been fishing for 60 years and never had a hook buried in me until last week...happened twice in 3 days.