Canoeing in flooded Paris is "totally irresponsible"

[Glenn MacGrady]

[h=1]More than 200 French towns battle floodwaters as River Seine is set to reach peak tonight - closing roads and schools and evacuating hospitals in underwater Paris[/h]

• River Seine has swollen to more than 13ft higher than its normal level amid the third-wettest winter since 1900
• The Louvre is on high alert, with its lower level closed, and Musee d'Orsay and Orangerie galleries also at risk
• Vigicrues flooding agency believe the river will continue to rise, peaking at 13.1ft this evening or on Monday

Police have also fined people taking to canoes on the Seine in central Paris, and sternly ordered others in a tweet against such actions, calling them 'totally irresponsible'.

Why would it be irresponsible and even legally punishable to use paddle boats to get around in a flood? Some people may need to do that in order for health, safety or evacuation reasons. By 'canoes', the French probably mean kayaks in CanAm-speak.

 

[DanOver]

Bad memories from when the Vikings came up the river??

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Note: "on the Seine" not "canoeing on the streets"

​​​​​​likely an over reaction but they are probably a bit stressed right now.

 

[recped]

They are not being used much to "get around", the Seine at least in parts of Paris is closed to boat traffic because of the high water. I've seen some video, there are dozens of bridges that you might be able to squeeze under in a low profile boat depending on your flexibility and many you would not get under without swimming, normally there would be 15+ feet of clearance.

Water is supposed to crest in the next 24 hours if there is no more rain.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Note: "on the Seine" not "canoeing on the streets"

​​​​​​likely an over reaction but they are probably a bit stressed right now.

I was interpreting all the floodwaters as "the Seine", but I see your point. If a bunch kayakers went out into the main channel just to play around, the authorities might think that was reckless endangerment of themselves and potential rescue personnel.

This reminds me of the famous incident in 1996 when the reigning world champion whitewater canoeist, Davey Hearn (now the owner of Sweet Composites), was arrested for surfing his local training river, the Potomac, when it was in flood.

WORLD CHAMPION CANOEIST HAS ROW WITH POLICE

Four months ago Davey Hearn rode the shoulders of the world's top whitewater paddlers to the winner's circle in Nottingham, England, having just won the world slalom canoeing championship for the second time in a 20-year racing career.

Sunday the 35-year-old gold medalist from Bethesda rode the perfect wave on the swollen, frigid Potomac, then rode a patrol wagon up MacArthur Boulevard to a booking station in Glen Echo, having been wrestled, arrested and handcuffed by U.S. Park Police. Hearn's crime: paddling the river where he became best in the world after officers ordered him out of the water on grounds it was dangerous, a contention with which Hearn strongly disagreed.

Hearn was charged with resisting arrest and failure to obey a lawful order of a police officer, both misdemeanors punishable by fines up to $1,000 and a year in jail, and with violating the river closure notice, a "petty crime."

Twenty years later, relying on the judge's opinion dismissing the case against Hearn, a Maryland law firm wrote an opinion on this subject:

Can the Park Service Order a Paddler Off the Flooded Potomac River?

Judge Messitte ultimately ruled that (1) because the Potomac River is controlled by Maryland, NPS could not order Hearn off of the Potomac River, and (2) even though NPS could arrest Hearn for being on the NPS-controlled river shore, because NPS essentially "brought him over" to the shore, NPS could not penalize Hearn for obeying their come-ashore request. Judge Messitte dismissed the charges against Davey Hearn.

. . . . Maryland has no laws regarding high-water paddling of the Potomac River (or any other river). Thus, NPS cannot fine/arrest any individual for high-water use of the Potomac River (or any other Maryland-controlled river).

Of course, this reading of Maryland law does not control in any of the other 49 states in the USA or any foreign country.

 

[Odyssey]

I was told paddling wasn't allowed; I asked when I was there. I was surprised, given the popularity of kayak tours just about everywhere. Commercial boat traffic is regular business on the Seine. Much powered transport takes place. Paddlers would be a menace I suppose. Still, there was this one time someone got away with it. https://www.thestar.com/life/travel/...geurstyle.html

 

[Guest]

Why would it be irresponsible and even legally punishable to use paddle boats to get around in a flood? Some people may need to do that in order for health, safety or evacuation reasons.

It could certainly be irresponsible use. I have no idea what legal statutes might be applied. Creating a Public Nuisance or Public Hazard. IRRC part of the Dave Hearn story was that the arresting officer was pissed that Hearn did not immediately Pull Over when commanded, like a motorist pulling to the curb.

Some people may need to use paddlecraft. The wisdom of that choice depends on the scenario. If it was necessary to use a canoe to evacuate for health or safety seasons that is a reasonable necessity.

Often the video of people paddling in flood conditions is of someone noodling around in a flooded street for funsies or looking for their 15 minutes of fame on the local news.

That may be novel fun and fleeting fame, but is neither a safe or healthy choice due to things like downed power lines, debris, sewage and other contaminates in the water, storm drain suck or getting in, quite literally, over their head. See especially novice paddlers without PFDs in rec boats using snow shovels or boards as paddles.

Unless it was absolutely necessary I would not even wade in waist deep urban floodwaters without a haxmat rated drysuit, much less risk an immersive swim there.

If the video is of paddlers on flooded rivers it is often footage of deboated paddlers in flooded rivers, clinging to trees and contributing to an already stretched need for rescue services.

I have paddled a couple of rivers in flood. I was more brash, less risk averse and, stupidly, not as experienced at the time. Accent on the stupid part, today I would turn around and go home.

Dave Hearn I am not. I missed my spot in the 96 whitewater championships by coming in 297,145 among Americans who demonstrated that they knew how to hold a paddle.

This reminds me of the famous incident in 1996 when the reigning world champion whitewater canoeist, Davey Hearn (now the owner of Sweet Composites), was arrested for surfing his local training river, the Potomac, when it was in flood.

I followed that story closely, as it occurred close to home and was discussed at length on the local paddling boards.

There is a vast difference between Dave Hearn tackling floodwaters on the Potomac, where he trains every day, and Jacque Schmoe plunking a rec kayak on the flooded Seine.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

There is a vast difference between Dave Hearn tackling floodwaters on the Potomac, where he trains every day, and Jacque Schmoe plunking a rec kayak on the flooded Seine.

There is a vast difference between a world champion and a schmoe paddling on any whitewater river, flat water river, waterfall jump, big windy lake, remote wilderness river, New York harbor, a circumnavigation of Iceland, or a crossing of the Atlantic Ocean. But thank god that Big Brother governmental authority has not intruded it's meddling nose into most of these places. So, in Maryland, both Hearn and Schmoe can paddle a flooded river -- their choice. In contrast, according to Odyssey's link, no one can paddle the Seine in Paris, flooded or unflooded, without the rare permission of a government bureaucracy.

It's empirically clear to me that it's dopier, less safe and schmoe-ier for a 70 year old man, and probably just about any woman, to hike and climb Mt. Katahdin than it is for an 18 year old male track champion. So, let's ban women and old men -- those we deem schmoes and dopes -- from hiking and climbing Katahdin. No, I have an even better and more humane idea: Let's ban everyone from hiking and climbing Katahdin, and therefore no one will ever be injured or die there. QED. My name is Orwell.

 

[Guest]

There is a vast difference between a world champion and a schmoe paddling on any whitewater river, flat water river, waterfall jump, big windy lake, remote wilderness river, New York harbor, a circumnavigation of Iceland, or a crossing of the Atlantic Ocean. But thank god that Big Brother governmental authority has not intruded it's meddling nose into most of these places.

Most of those places. There are a lot of exceptions.

There were other WW paddling issues as hidden undertones of the Hearn case. Washington DC lies on the fall line. Not just Great Falls, which would be the death of you, me and 99 percent of casual paddlers. There have been a few notable paddler deaths on Great Falls, it usually kills bankside fisherfolk who topple into the river, and hold my beer while I swim across Darwin candidates.

DC is a hotbed of eastern WW paddling and training. There are other DC metro creeks and streams that run only when in flood. Unfortunately some are in clear view of DC rush hour traffic, and paddling is prohibited for fear of commuter gawking and the inevitable vehicular accidents that activity would produce.

It's empirically clear to me that it's dopier, less safe and schmoe-ier for a 70 year old man, and probably just about any woman, to hike and climb Mt. Katahdin than it is for an 18 year old male track champion. So, let's ban women and old men -- those we deem schmoes and dopes -- from hiking and climbing Katahdin. No, I have an even better and more humane idea: Let's ban everyone from hiking and climbing Katahdin, and therefore no one will ever be injured or die there. QED. My name is Orwell.

I am generally Libertarian when it comes to personal liberties and the pursuit of happiness. To a point.

I have some admiration for rule breakers, the guys who purportedly swam the length of the Grand Canyon clad in wetsuits clinging to inflatable pads, or first paddler to sneak run the Niagara Gorge. I appreciate balls. Especially on survivors.

If I wanted to solo canoe the Grand Canyon I would need to provide proof of my bona fides to receive a permit. Where is Uncle Skwid these days?

If I wanted to attempt a solo, self supported, month long, off trail backbacking trip through Escalante I would need to show my past experiences. If I wanted to summit Denali in bedroom slippers I would expect to be turned away. I can accept those restrictions, especially on things I would never attempt.

Happiness can only exist in acceptance.