Bucket Seats?

[Guest]

I have used a variety of bucket seat pans from different manufacturers. The larger Wenonah bucket seats are comfy enough for me, although they seem persnickety about the angle of the front seat edge.

By far the longest duration comfortable bucket seat was in the Kruger Sea Wind. There is a perhaps apocryphal story that Verlen Kruger had every shop visitor sit on a moldable seat pan template until he found the common denominator sweet spot in shape, width and depth.

That may be true, the seat pan in the Kruger designed MRC Monarch is likewise day long comfortable for me.

The for me part may be critical, everyones derriere and back support needs may differ. For me, a wide seat pan, with a deeply indented butt cheek depression, has proven most comfortable, but I have a lot of fleshy width and depth to nestle in accommodation. Skinny folks mileage may vary.

And not just seat pan width and cheek depth. I really like some vertical rise at the back of the seat pan to help hold me in place and support my lower back. Again, that may depend on the individual paddlers physiology and lower back issues.

In that regard the IQ seats from MRC hit my all around sweet spot, a fleshy good 18 inches wide by 4 inches deep, with some towering height in the back of the seat for sacroiliac support. The MRC IQ seat is the only seat I have not needed to augment with a back band for support.

There is no room for a back band. The IQ seat sticks up 2 inches above the sheerline in the shallow hulled Malecite. That is a minor PITA lift up when racking the canoe, but a small price to pay for the lower back support and comfort.

What is your favorite bucket seat design, acknowledging that paddler size, weight and physiology may differ?

 

[gumpus]

You sure come up with a lot of good topics Mike. You didn't mention whether you sit or kneel, I'd guess that you sit in all those boats. I kneel and my only experience with a tractor seat was in a Souris River Jensen Solo 16...a lot like a Wenonah. As I recall it was comfy on the buns. There is for sure some appeal to being well-supported and centered. I'd be tempted to try one of the seats shown on the Hemlock site since I also like the idea of fore/aft adjustability.

http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/hemlock-seat.html

 

[yknpdlr]

The most comfortable seat I have sat in is a molded carbon fiber seat by Savage River Canoe, with a thin foam glued in pad. As a bow paddler, it has kept my butt "reasonably comfortable" for as much as 22 hours nonstop (the first leg before the first mandatory rest stop on the Yukon River Quest). Grasse River Newman Boatworks (GRB) makes one almost as good for 18 hours/day of nonstop paddling I use on the Yukon 1000 mile race, but the addition of a gel pad is almost mandatory for any kind of continued comfort in that seat. Each of those seats have a small rise in the back and sides. Either way, a 15 degree forward tilt is best for the back comfort and to keep pressure off the under side of thighs (to maintain leg blood circulation and to keep legs from falling asleep). Being a bow paddler, the canoes I race in are narrow enough at my station such that the gunwales are very close so to my hip on each side so I can effect a vertical shaft stroke (seat is similarly placed for the stern paddler of those boats).

Since I most often paddle either a C6 voyageur or a C4 canoe, the center paddlers need to have a different system to get hip on gunwale. In those canoes, the center seats will have a way for the paddlers to slide to the gunwale. On my first voyageur, we installed teflon sheet on the full width seat, with a short wooden backrest. Thin nylon shorts slide very well on the teflon in warm weather. Later, on a much larger Yukon configured Voyageur, we had bucket seats on bearing supported wheels to slide left and right for seats 2-5. In C4 canoes, center paddlers 2 and 3 are on bucket seats that slide on stiff tubular sleeves to alternate left and right at each "hut".

However, I believe that the best kind of bow or stern seat in a canoe wider at bow or stern (in which the paddlersits centered with each gunwale placed not very close to hip) are bench seats with tight webbing or cane. That is the only seat that lets the paddler skooch their butt over to be right on the paddle side gunwale for a proper vertical shaft stroke (paddle shoulder over the water). Centered bucket seats generally are not so good for that. Having bow and stern paddlers with hips on opposite gunwales is actually a more stable configuration than having both perfectly centered. I have two Wenonah canoes with the standard bucket seats. I'm tempted to change one to bench style.

 

[Erica]

There is a bucket seat in the Winonah Advantage I recently got. It is comfortable while I am paddling, but by nightfall my lower back is hurting so badly I can hardly stand up. I have tested this several times and know it is the bucket seat and not just aging bones, or chain sawing all the trees Irma blew over.

I think I am leaning towards (no pun intended) yknpdlr's views that the bench seat with webbing or cane is more useful to me. Has anyone posted how to change a seat to a bench?

Erica

 

[stripperguy]

There is a bucket seat in the Winonah Advantage I recently got. It is comfortable while I am paddling, but by nightfall my lower back is hurting so badly I can hardly stand up. I have tested this several times and know it is the bucket seat and not just aging bones, or chain sawing all the trees Irma blew over.

I think I am leaning towards (no pun intended) yknpdlr's views that the bench seat with webbing or cane is more useful to me. Has anyone posted how to change a seat to a bench?

Erica

Pretty simple, really. Just epoxy in a couple of cleats and attach the seat rails to those. If the hull is particularly weak and/or thin, you might need to add some reinforcement, but again, pretty easy to do.

 

[goonstroke]

I have used a variety of bucket seat pans from different manufacturers. The larger Wenonah bucket seats are comfy enough for me, although they seem persnickety about the angle of the front seat edge.
...

I hate the prominent gonad/taint bump on older Wenonah composite bucket seats. If I need to avoid sliding forward, the footbrace works well enough. For all day comfort I prefer a web or cane seat.

 

[latremorej]

Since I don't own a solo canoe and I paddle tandem in reverse, I prefer a bench seat. It allows me to shift my weight to compensate for the dog moving, paddle strokes on diff sides, etc... I did have a brief trip in a wenonah while actually paddling tandem though. It was comfortable as the stern paddler. I was only on the seat for a few hours though. I too have more than most attached to the top of my legs.

Jason

 

[Alan Gage]

Never been a big fan of the large Wenonah buckets. I'm on the skinny side and not only do I slide around in them too much but I just don't find them very comfortable. If I put a piece of foam on the seat it's fine.

I do like the small Wenonah bucket though. It usually went on the fast solos and racing boats. It fits me well and and I can paddle 12 hour days with no padding and no discomfort.

I think the most comfortable bucket I've ever sat in is the old Sawyer design. It's big but for some reason fits me better than the large Wenonah.

Seat angle can be a bit picky. Some forward cant makes it more comfortable for kneeling but too much and it feels like you're going to slide off when sitting. But if the seat is tipped back too far it puts pressure on the back of your thighs when sitting. Just a little forward cant seems to be the sweet spot.

To me a foot brace is a must (for any seat) but I've never felt the need or desire for back support. Hopefully that doesn't change as I get older.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

Alan's Own design is small, but it fits me perfect with a 38" waist !

Jim

 

[yellowcanoe]

ed's contoured bucket seat.

Seats are like shoes only more personal.. No two tushes are the same. But I agree with Alan.. flat webbed seats lead to sciatica and dead feet for me.

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan's Own design is small, but it fits me perfect with a 38" waist !

Jim

That's the same as the small Wenonah.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Never been a big fan of the large Wenonah buckets. I'm on the skinny side and not only do I slide around in them too much but I just don't find them very comfortable. If I put a piece of foam on the seat it's fine.

I do like the small Wenonah bucket though. It usually went on the fast solos and racing boats. It fits me well and and I can paddle 12 hour days with no padding and no discomfort.

I think the most comfortable bucket I've ever sat in is the old Sawyer design. It's big but for some reason fits me better than the large Wenonah.

Seat angle can be a bit picky. Some forward cant makes it more comfortable for kneeling but too much and it feels like you're going to slide off when sitting. But if the seat is tipped back too far it puts pressure on the back of your thighs when sitting. Just a little forward cant seems to be the sweet spot.

To me a foot brace is a must (for any seat) but I've never felt the need or desire for back support. Hopefully that doesn't change as I get older.

No surprise that individual physiology matters in choice of bucket seat comfort. While I largely prefer a slightly canted contour bench seat with some padding some bucket seats work well for me.

All of our bucket seats have Ridgerest foam contact cemented in place, and that helps with overall comfort. Skinnier family members are happy with a padded out smaller Wenonah bucket seat, but by the time I have glued on some Ridgerest only one butt cheek will fit.

All but one of our bucket seats have a slight cant angle forward, the one does not needs some work to relieve pressure under my thighs, and becomes increasingly uncomfortable after a few hours.

The hump in some Wenonah seats does not bother me, all of our boats have a foot brace or pedals, and I have enough fleshy personal padding to elevate my undersides. But the vertical rise at the back of those Wenonah seats provides insufficient back support for my long tortured lower back. Adding a small adjustable back band completely eliminates that discomfort.

The only bucket seat that I have found comfortable without a back band is the IQ bucket seat. That IQ bucket is crazy deep in butt dimple, a nearly 4 inch deep concavity, and crazier tall at the back, sticking up 8 inches. That much high back rise is problematic when racking the canoe since the seat back sticks up above the sheerline, but gloriosky is it comfy with my lower back problems.

P1270479 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

A friend plans on replacing the bucket like seat on one of his decked canoes and has essentially determined that he needs less concavity for his skinny arse, and a bit of forward cant to relieve pressure on his thighs. And probably a smaller seat pan for better capture.

The Hemlock bucket shown by Gumpus might be a candidate for his use, it looks flatter and less concave than the Wenonah. I have no idea about the actual seat pan dimension side to side and front to back. He is a twig and an oversize bucket seat might result in a too loose fit.

Test paddling different canoes before making a choice is a time consuming chore, trying to test sit different bucket seats would be even more difficult. I can tell within minutes if the canoe fits, but need some hours to evaluate a bucket seat pan.

At this point I would not install a bucket seat, or select a canoe equipped with one, unless I knew from experience that it worked well with my posterior.

There is a bucket seat in the Winonah Advantage I recently got. It is comfortable while I am paddling, but by nightfall my lower back is hurting so badly I can hardly stand up. I have tested this several times and know it is the bucket seat and not just aging bones, or chain sawing all the trees Irma blew over.

I think I am leaning towards (no pun intended) yknpdlr's views that the bench seat with webbing or cane is more useful to me. Has anyone posted how to change a seat to a bench?

I have replaced two bucket sliders, one bow, one center, with fixed bench seats for friends who found the bucket uncomfortable and the slider part unnecessary and little used.

The hardest part with a pedestal mounted seat may be removing the seat pan from the aluminum frame, but a Dremel tool or a sharp scoring tool will free the epoxied fiberglass tape. The seat pan will pop right off and you can clean up the ragged glass from the pedestal tubes with a file and sandpaper.

Erica, before removing the bucket seat I suggest padding it, if you have not already done so. Especially if the seat pan feels too large for you. Padding the pan with some Ridgerest foam will effectively reduce the size of the seat, and might hold you in place better, with less core muscle action needed to stay positioned in the seat.

Some lower back support is critical for me on almost any seat, bench or bucket. I use a Surf to Summit back band, which is simple to install, adjust and move from boat to boat.

PC180135 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

https://www.surftosummit.com/collections/kayak-gear/products/performance-back-band

Try some padding and a back band. If the Advantage bucket seat is still uncomfortable take it out. All you have lost is some Ridgerest foam, and the back band can still be used with whatever bench seat you install in the Advantage, and in other boats as well.

 

[yknpdlr]

I've used a Wenonah super seat to save my back on those long nonstop paddling days. They come in two versions, one for a bucket seat or one for a bench seat. before that I modified a cheap lightweiight version of a crazy creek chair with some success, but the Wenonah is much better.

http://www.rutabaga.com/wenonah-canoe-super-seats

 

[saltandsky]

Lower back issues makes kneeling much more comfortable for me and had me looking for ways to deal with bucket seats in two canoes.

I had a Wenonah Prism with a small bucket on a pedestal and contemplated cutting it out to put in a bench. It was an ultralight hull and would have needed reinforcing to hang a bench. Short on time to make the mod before a trip I made a wedge of mini cell; the underside shaped to fit the bucket the top flat and the whole thing tapering from 2" at the back to nothing at the front. I put the Wenonah seat cushion over the seat and wedge which held everything in place. It provided a the right slope, softened things up and I could just get my feet under the seat. It worked well enough and made it comfortable enough that I used the Prism that way for a couple of years before selling it.

I have a Monarch and agree with Mike that the big bucket is much more comfortable. No way to make the Monarch a kneeler because of the foot pedals for the rudder. I tried three different back rests/ bands looking for relief before settling on the Surf to Summit that Mike mentioned. Not perfect but it helps. I'm not giving up the Monarch.

 

[BlackRock]

Does anyone have advice as best approach to acquiring any of these bucket seats? It is possible to purchase them from the manufacturers without purchasing a whole boat? I'm pondering incorporating one into a build, but haven't been able to find them for sale anywhere.