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Best canoe dog for wolf protection

Glenn MacGrady

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Wolves? What wolves? Who's afraid of the big bad wolf?

These folks, for example: ‘They are absolutely huge:’ Wolves attack in Northern Saskatchewan as animals lose fear of humans

Articles like these got me interested in the question of whether any dog could out-fight or kill a wolf.

After all, rational man when he lived in the wilderness either domesticated wolves or tried to exterminate them. They developed breeds of dogs to hunt wolves and protect livestock from them.

The original Irish Wolfhound, now extinct due to the pernicious inbreeding standards of show dog clubs, is credited with with completely ridding England, Scotland and Ireland of wolves. However, accounts vary as to how these giant dogs were actually employed. Some say they were used in packs to hold the wolf at bay for human hunters. Others say the Irish Wolfhound could outrun a wolf, would catch a fleeing wolf on the run, grab the wolf by the back, and break its neck or back with a flinging maneuver while still on the run. Whatever -- the original breed no longer exists and would be hard to fit in a tripping canoe.

I've found hundreds of posts on the dog vs. wolf fight-to-the-death scenario. Everyone agrees that no breed of dog could survive an attack by a pack of wolves. But the question is: What about one-on-one? There seem to be four opinions.

1. The wilderness wolf, the ultimate wilderness survival predator, would tear any domestic dog to shreds. No contest. The wolf is a sort of super-canine. It does seem to be true that wolves have significantly more bite strength than any domestic breed.

2. There might be some dog breeds that would stand a chance, if only occasionally, against a wolf. But we're not sure and certainly not in agreement as to which breeds these are. Rottweiler - yes, no. Rhodesian Ridgeback, used to hunt lions in Africa - yes, no. Borzoi - yes, no.

3. The breeds with the best chance are those dogs that are actually used in wolf-heavy areas around the world as livestock guardian dogs (LGD's), usually in eastern Europe and Asia. These include dogs such as the Anatolian Shepherd, Caucasian Shepherd, Kangal and Russian Ovcharka.

4. The professional pit fighting breeds -- which have been scientifically bred for two centuries to have "game", allowing them to fight for hours without ever backing down -- would kill a wolf every time. 100%. No contest. This assumes the wolf stands and fights, and doesn't run away to survive for another day as its instincts may tell it to do. The fighting breeds frequently mentioned are the American Pit Bull Terrier, the Tosa Inu and the Bully Kutta. Skeptics say the wolf wouldn't stand and fight or run away; with its greater running speed, the wolf would make flesh-slashing runs at the fighting dog and not allow the pit fighter to latch on with its powerful jaws. The American Pit Bull is the smallest of the fighters and would probably best fit in a canoe.

A pack of two or three wolf-fighting dogs might be safer to protect against a pack of wolves, but do domesticated dogs, even the pit fighters, know how to strategize and fight in pack as wolves certainly do?

Ideally, the wolf-fighting canoe dog would also be a good bear-scaring dog, which might merit a discussion of the Karelian Bear Dog.

I know that many experienced canoeists will say that the most pestiferous mammals are actually rodents. So, keep in mind that the original bulldog, often crossed with terriers, was originally bred to catch and kill rats.

The point is this: If one is going to canoe with a dog -- which is not my cup of tea -- why not do so with one that is maximally protective and deterrent against large, predatory, dangerous animals.
 
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Having seen some of the dogs that wolves have ripped to shreds, I would say that domestic dogs stand very little chance of winning any fight with a wolf. Wolves kill for a living. My son has a 160 pound rotweiller....it might hold it's own against one wolf for a bit, but it would go down. Keep in mind that the prospect of facing only one wolf is very slim. There will always be at least two. Armchair speculation about a lone wolf fighting a lone dog is just guys bullsh@@ting. That's not how it happens 9.5 times out of ten.

Finding a canoe dog to fight wolves is also problematic because dogs usually lure wolves into your campsite. Wolves hate dogs. They come into town every winter and murder a large percentage of outside dogs. I have had wolves stalk my old Brit spaniel when I was snowshoeing in the winter.

The good news is that the chance of a wolf attack, contrary to what the media would have you believe, is very slim. Something similar to the incidents of anal probing by aliens on wilderness trips.

As for black bears, almost any dog can chase them off. My 50 pound siberian huskie chased off many bears. My overweight white house cat almost did a Mike Tyson on a 400 pound bear. A ferocious Yorkie could probably run off most black bears.

So, don't worry about wolves, and if bears really scare you, take a house cat tripping with you.
 
The point is this: If one is going to canoe with a dog -- which is not my cup of tea -- why not do so with one that is maximally protective and deterrent against large, predatory, dangerous animals.

Because such a dog would be very large and consume a vast amount of food, nearly all of which you'd be packing in. I don't think any breed of dog, if it was raised as a house pet, would have any chance against a wolf. I don't think I'd much enjoy tripping with a dog who was raised and bred to be that much of a fighter. I imagine they'd go looking for a fight if they had the chance. I prefer my trips to be a little more laid back.

I have absolutely no worry about a wolf attacking me on a canoe trip. There are so few wolf attacks on humans it doesn't even cross my mind. I do worry some about Sadie getting snatched by wolves but so far so good.

After all, rational man when he lived in the wilderness either domesticated wolves or tried to exterminate them.

Admittedly I'm no expert on the subject but everything I've read about the native peoples in North America makes it sound like they co-existed with wolves just fine and made no effort to exterminate them. It wasn't until us white honkies showed up and started offering them money for wolf pelts that the natives began hunting them.

Alan
 
A pack of two or three wolf-fighting dogs might be safer to protect against a pack of wolves, but do domesticated dogs, even the pit fighters, know how to strategize and fight in pack as wolves certainly do?

I have close to zero expertise, but I'd have to guess that domestic dogs would not. I recall seeing some research on dogs and wolves a while ago, and one particular bit I recall was that domestic dogs tend to rely on help or direction from humans for problem-solving tasks. This is a brief summary: http://phys.org/news/2015-09-wolves-...ated-dogs.html
 
Mike Ranta is paddling cross Canada with a dog Spitzi. They did run into wolves north of Thunder Bay. Spitzi got frightened and ran off for a day... I don't think that unless you have a pack of feral dogs that dogs would have a chance against wolves. And haven't we as owners become alpha as in the dogs looking to us for direction? Unless you think like a wolf I think you are done.
image003_zpsdn0arui4.jpg
 
Wolf track found in the mud on the bank of the Yukon River during a rest stop on the Y1K race. We saw a couple of them (including a black one) running on the shore while we were paddling.

I recently visited my grandfather's homeland village in the foothills of the Carpathian mountains of Poland. Trying to find any existing relatives, the town drunk sent me on a wild goose chase up a heavily rutted dirt road. I found the following and took photos next to my size 12 boot.




After I later finally located a cousin, I showed him the photos and I said "wolf?" with the only 2 words of English I heard him say up to that point, he replied with: "big wolf."
 
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Don't know about wolves, but having a dog along increases coyote problems around here.
Turtle
 
I agree with previous sentiments. No dog is going to stand a chance against wolves. If you are worried about them bring a sidearm if you're in the states or a JIC shotgun in Canada. Dogs will make the wolf situation worse.
 
Other than sounding an alarm dogs in the bush are not a good idea for many reasons and yet I love having their company. My worse experience can be found here.

http://www.geraldguay.ca/cassie.html


About 7-8 years ago a solo canoeist I was in contact with spent 5 weeks exploring and travelling a certain river in the northern part of the NWT with his retriever as company. When I asked for a copy of his travel log cause I might be interested in doing that same river solo with my dog someday he told me that the presence of the dog was not a good idea. After some coaxing i finally got him to elaborate on his advice. In that 5 week period on the river he had to destroy 3 grizzlies because of the presence of his dog. The grizzlies in the central and eastern NWT are rather mild and shy compared to the ones on the West coast/Rockies region and yet on three different occasions these bears just walked into camp trying to get at his dog.who, each time, ran into the tent. He was protecting his shelter as well as his dog. The bears completely ignored him they just wanted, it seemed, to rid their territory of this 4 legged intruder. After the third bear and with another week or more to go before he was to be picked up by float plane he was near out of shot shells. Of course he did not report this incident to the RCMP nor did he ever mention it to anyone else it seems.

Gerald
 
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I dont worry about much of anything predatory in my part of the country. We have black bears, and wolves. Coyotes too, and cougars.

I worry more about feral dogs than wolves, but therein may be the point. Feral dogs are vicious buggers who will attack people if hungry enough. That is why most reserves have a spring dog shoot that cleans them up. Too dangerous for the kids. Apparently they are habituated and therefore not afraid. Now dont get me wrong, but a little bit of lead flying when they come close to humans might make for a more cautious animal. These are apex predators and not stupid. They need to relearn the relationship between us and them. Namely, that we are not to be messed with.

I realise this is not everyones cup of tea but hey, nature is full of violence. As an aside, I personally would not have gone to the areas that Alan did without a firearm. And spray. Not because I am afraid of anything, but because it never pays to take chances that far out.

Wow. One day back at work with the Army guys and I am murder incorporated...lol.I need a new job. And a tripping cat.

Christy
 
This guy lives in the Hay River area of the NWT and spends a long time in the bush with his black lab named Charley. He has a popular Youtube Channel called "Wildnorth" and his love for his dog Charley is no secret.

He and a few of his buddies flew north for some sheep hunting this August and he brought Charley with them.
Charley ended up being attacked by 3 wolves right in camp, here's the video (caution the language is raw and might not be for everyone)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDxaxwzQYzs
 
Do not know about a dog attracting wolves. What I do know is the ABCA boarder collie. Yes there are two breeds of boarder collie. AKC (also known as barbies by the ABCA as they are bred for the show ring) and then the ABCA breed for work. They were bred to be able to heard and protect the herd from wolves. Their neck fur and neck bones were selected breeding points to allow them to with stand a neck bite. They also wish to be with you rather than wondering off. Will joyfully upon first meeting other boarder collies work together. One boarder collie against one wolf has a good chance. Any more than that the boarder collie will lose. You just need a pack of border collies. Basically every instinct that a wolf uses to hunt was bred back int the boarder collie except the kill. This allows them to herd. They are wolves in penguin suits.

A Florida Black Bear broke in to the fenced in back yard. They did not want to be called off. Florida Black Bear can be herded. The way my two collies worked him made me sorry for him. That is until I had to pay for the fence repairs. Now when he comes around they just look at him and he runs away as soon as he sees them. No barking needed. The local coyote leaves us alone. It prefers a little smaller dogs and cats.

As a side note our border collie was doing good as a canoe dog. That was until we noticed the gators looking him over as a good snack. As much as I hate leaving him home when we are on the water for his safety we do. He is a great trail dog. Just has problem with trail blazes. Likes the orange ones over yellow.

There must be a sent or something that wolves do not like. Wonder what it is.
 
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Up here we have our share of wolfs and bears as most of you know, we also have our share of dogs, sled dog country! In 20 years in the Yukon, we had more wolves taking down dogs than bears taking them down. most if not all the time wile the dogs are on the chain in the dog yard. We have the occasional pet being taken by wolfs in town, especially during the winter. But again that is quite seldom, maybe half a dozen or so a year. I never heard, and I don't mean it never happens, of dog taken by wolfs during trips, never.

I like what Mem said! Makes a lot of sense!!
 
This guy lives in the Hay River area of the NWT and spends a long time in the bush with his black lab named Charley. He has a popular Youtube Channel called "Wildnorth" and his love for his dog Charley is no secret.

He and a few of his buddies flew north for some sheep hunting this August and he brought Charley with them.
Charley ended up being attacked by 3 wolves right in camp, here's the video (caution the language is raw and might not be for everyone)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDxaxwzQYzs

One of my absolute favourite youtube channels. Andrew and his dog Charlie.
 
Wow... Way to many of them red neck up here to!! No effing respect for anything other than there own things. Sorry but he's an idiot and most of the people that commented as well at least the one that agree that all wolfs and bears and cougars etc should all be shot cause they eat our games.... WTF
 
So are we all agreed that a house cat is the best protection from the alien probing thing?
 
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Around here, there are two favored dogs for protecting livestock without human guidance....

http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/komondor#/slide/1

http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/great-pyrenees#/slide/1

They both have reputations of killing intruding coyotes, but I have yet to hear how they fare against a wolf. In any case, they are both too big for canoe dog status, and both are high-maintenance dogs.

It's academic anyway though, because what Mem says about dogs attracting wolves seems to be proving out here in Idaho too.
 
A dog at best is perimeter security , an alarm system . I think dogs realized humans vie for top predator thus became our friends. Thus that happy alliance works more for them than for us .
 
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