Another Spray Skirt/Spray Cover Thread

[Guest]

Mike, I have been think about a spray skirt. Where did you get this one?

Al, I took this to a separate discussion. There are as many possibilities in spray covers as there are ideas about materials, design, installation, number of pieces, over-sheerline expandable/adjustable, zippers, gear hatches, features and optional accessories.

We have or have had spray covers in all manner of design. Full covers with spray skirt tunnels

P7140017 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Simple belly covers

P6100011 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Bow (and stern) spray shields

P1220454 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I dislike getting in and out of a spray skirt tunnel when launching or landing, so my preferred covers are two-piece (actually three-piece) custom partial covers from CCS. Not much use in washover waves or WW, but for 90% of what I do, perfect for my rain, splash, paddle drip and windage (and heat, sun, UV) reductions.

Bow partial, up past my ankles

P1220457 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Stern partial, leaving some open space behind the seat for gear reach-behind accessible while on the water.

P1220459 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

That leaves me with an easy entry/egress open cockpit in the center of a solo canoe. To simplify dry storage of paddling gear while in camp Dan built me the softball sized third pieces, flat center storage covers.

P2160542 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I can leave all of the paddling gear dry, protected and sight unseen below that little storage cover, which quickly snaps on and off. I don’t have to haul that gear up to camp, stored under a tarp or stuffed in a vestibule. Or try to cram it all under an overturned canoe and hope the rain doesn’t blow sideways or the wind doesn’t steal anything overnight. It’s all sealed dry in the hull, waiting in the boat, ready to go the next morning.

P2160540 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

P3090604 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

There are paddle pockets on the ends of both the bow and stern partials, and (at least) two paddle shaft straps on each cover near the raised rain and spray drainage baffle. I need a place to secure the spare paddle, and want places to secure my primary blade (take apart double) and a furled sail or push pole while getting in and out.

P2160520 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I still got pocket space and an empty paddle strap. Good place for the clam rake.

P2160519 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Covers are such a personal preference it’s worth revisiting what covers folks use, and I’d like to hear what they like/dislike about different design spray skirts or covers.

There are some cunning DIY designs, and the DIY bit interests me. I’d like to try my hand at a DIY’ing a cover, incorporating some of the design features I know I like.



Yadda, yadda, yadda. I’d like to know active spray skirt users would change or redesign on their covers.

 

[recped]

I'm not an active user of spray covers. Ar one time I used them quite a bit and considered it almost mandatory for Class III tripping. I used covers made by Outdoor Solutions which are the "traditional" (Canadian) riveted strap and ladder-lock design (made popular here by Trailhead). Instead of using covers I switched to using boats that were more appropriate for big water tripping and stuffing them full of gear as flotation.

I travelled with a guy a few years ago who made his own cover, he had an interesting wrinkle in his covers,to create "hoops" to keep the cover elevated so it shed water very well he made hoops using PEX plumbing tubing inside electrical conduit (the sizing fit perfectly). The conduit on it's own was subject to crushing/bending, the PEX on it's own far too floppy but the combo worked very well.

Another friend who also made his own (more splash covers than full decks, used old flotation bags made for a C1 (quite flatish in shape), placed them between gear and the cover and then inflated. They created a dome shape which really shed water well and also made his boat somewhat self-righting similar to what you see on emergency escape lifeboats used on ocean going ships that when rolled in large waves/swells will always right themselves.

Don't have pictures of either design unfortunately, just thought I would toss out these ideas for the DIY crowd.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Well, you've gotten a lot of spraycoverphilia from Mr. McCrea and you'll hear a lot of good things about them from many others on this forum, I imagine, including a member here who makes perhaps the best on the market, Dan Cooke. (And even he has a warning on his site about their proper use.)

I'll offer the converse opinion: Spray covers are a waste of time, weight and money. And they can be downright dangerous entanglement traps in whitewater. All you need are some good waterproof packs (or pack liners), good rain gear, a sponge, a bailer, some float bags if running whitewater, and some basic knowledge about packing and securing gear in a canoe.

 

[Dan Cooke]

CCS warning " Note of Warning ...canoe covers are not for everyone! Canoe covers of any design can be life threatening if used without the proper training and practice exiting the skirt under controlled conditions."
Glen, canoe covers are for more than just whitewater. I believe you would find them to be of value doing far north canoeing; where weather and waves can be a very big deal. Canoe covers have kept me afloat without having to bail when the waves came up to where they went over the gunnels. They reduce the effect of wind, increasing hull speed and control. They can reduce the effect of cold weather by trapping heat and reducing the effect of wind pulling warmth from you. After a long day of paddling in 40° weather or colder you have more energy reserves if you have a canoe cover verses not having one.

Can you get trapped? Possibly- you can also get trapped in an open canoe- Legs under seat, entangled with rigging used to secure packs, painter lines and so on for example. Most canoes come with warning/ caution labels affixed to them; it is an activity with risk.

Canoe covers have a place but they are not for most canoe paddlers and not suited for every canoeing purpose. Canoe covers do not increase your paddling skill set.

 

[Will Derness]

About 10 years ago I put a center seat and footbar in one of my tandem canoes, followed shortly thereafter with a back band. This setup lent itself to using a double blade and I got myself a long double blade for canoe use. On really windy days on openwater I found using the double blade easier to manage the canoe than a single blade. I can also drive the canoe faster with the double blade. It came at a cost though. Despite the presence of drip rings, the double blade shed water into the canoe in noticeable quantity. Periodic sponge bailing was required to combat the water intrusion or suffer from water sloshing about.

CCS crafted me a front cover that resolved my paddle drip/ wet canoe ride problem. I can now paddle all day with double blade and have no more bilge water than when using a single blade. It also makes the canoe slip the wind better on breezy days. Sure there are risks using a cover, emptying a capsized canoe with a front cover on would be troublesome for sure. I'm conservative, so I've not been on seas big enough to have waves coming over the gunwales, but if I was I'd rather have the front cover on than not.

For me, the risks of the cover are out weighed by the dry ride I get.

 

[Guest]

Well, you've gotten a lot of spraycoverphilia from Mr. McCrea and you'll hear a lot of good things about them from many others on this forum, I imagine, including a member here who makes perhaps the best on the market, Dan Cooke. (And even he has a warning on his site about their proper use.)

The caution on the CCS site: “Note of Warning ...canoe covers are not for everyone! Canoe covers of any design can be life threatening if used without the proper training and practice exiting the skirt under controlled conditions.”

Using partial covers with an open center “cockpit” area largely eliminates any potential entrapment issue. It also eliminates some of the advantages of a full cover, but like everything else canoe compromises must be made. Again, for 90% of what I un-adventurously undertake, partials are perfect.

I don’t want to downplay entrapment hazards, which are present with or without a cover, but the times I have practiced capsizing with a tunnel spray skirt I have popped free with surprisingly little effort or even thoughtful intention.

The closest I have come to entrapment was a rare kneeling extraction, when a boot lace hooked around a too long machine screw on a seat drop. An experience that scared me enough to eliminate that hazard with properly sized hardware and rounded cap nuts, not just on the seat drop hardware, but on all machine screw ends. heck, I glue short thread protectors on exposed pop rivet shanks, so I don’t catch a finger in a boat rescue

I'll offer the converse opinion: Spray covers are a waste of time, weight and money. And they can be downright dangerous entanglement traps in whitewater. All you need are some good waterproof packs (or pack liners), good rain gear, a sponge, a bailer, some float bags if running whitewater, and some basic knowledge about packing and securing gear in a canoe.

Dan is of course correct, spray covers are not for everyone. I have more tripping friends that have tried spray covers and disliked them than those who like and use them. I fall in the latter category and will offer my counter to the potential downside of covers.

Waste of time: With practice it takes a couple of minutes to install a cover. I need only undo a couple of snaps on either side to extract or reload the dry bags and barrel from either end, so once the bow and stern partials are on I rarely remove anything fully (except the center storage cover) until the end of the trip.

Waste of weight: For funsies I weighed the Wenonah Wilderness CCS partials with center storage cover and Dan’s provided stuff bag, which should be about the same for a full cover. 2lbs, 10oz. Or, in McCrea units, 3.5 cans of beer. Or nearly a kilo of weed, enough to keep even Glenn happy on a long trip.

Packed in the CCS provided stuff bag the 3-piece cover is the size of a loaf of bread, and when removed the center portion is the size of a softball.

Waste of money: My CCS partial covers, with center storage panel, were around $400 at the time. A full sized solo canoe cover, with paddle pockets/strap accessories and a modified rivet tool now runs closer to $600.

I have waterproof packs, good rain gear, a sponge/bailer, float bags for running whitewater, and knowledge about packing and securing gear in a canoe. The knowledge part came at little cost, except early some poorly chosen gear selections and lack of D-rings or tie down points. The current packs, barrel, raingear and float bags cost, eh, another six bills at least.

That is without the PFD, tent, tarp, sleeping bag & pad, water filter, stove and miscellanea; I started totaling that tripping gear up in my head and stopped when I hit $1000. Add to that, if you like, a carbon paddle ($300) and a modern composite canoe $3000+.

Well built and design-proven gear isn’t cheap. The cost of a functional spray cover seems very reasonable in comparison. More so if you have settled on a tripping boat you will own and use for years to come and can amortize the cost over time, trips and miles.

Dan’s response above beat me to it on the possible advantages of a cover. From the CCS site: Wind, rain, or changing weather conditions, standing waves, or extended trips; these are all situations where a quality canoe cover can make the difference. More than just protecting your gear, a canoe cover will give you greater paddling control and efficiency due to less wind resistance.

I will add some personal observations, starting with exception to Dan’s mention of “far north”. On hot sunny desert rivers a spray covers is as much a boon as in cold weather. Gear shaded under the covers everything stays cooler, and my Snickers bars don’t melt in the barrel.

Plus it’s nice to have some shade for my pale white legs under a desert sun. Same under any sunny summer weather where the ambient water temp is below the air temp; it stays cooler, at least under the open end partials. And most folks roll back their covers in clement water and weather.

I use covers on open water and coastal bay trips where it is often windy. I have no measurable evidence about how much a cover lessens wind resistance or aid efficiency, but it sure “seems” to help, especially in quartering winds.

Or it may simply be that a cover helps prevent me from randomly tossing in a poorly stored glamping load, towering tall above the sheerline. Not that I would ever be inclined to such absurdity.

Covers are unquestionably effective for shedding bow splash and spray in waves, and paddle drips and rain. Even the partial covers keep ¾ of the rain out and drained over the side, so I have to bail/sponge less often.

Beyond that obviousness , and perhaps equally important for my varied spray cover applications:

The paddle pockets and straps provide a secure and easily accessible place for paddles, plural. That single blade, double blade, furled sail, push pole/walking staff handy storage is nearly paramount for mu uses.

I do a lot of base camp paddling, and being able to leave the paddles, PFD, bailer/sponge, map, sail, seat pad, back band etc, all dry, secure and unseen inside the canoe is a huge boon. I can wander down to the canoe unencumbered next morning for a day paddle from camp to find a dry canoe and gear. Nothing gets wet, nothing blows away, everything is there ready to go as soon as I unsnap a few rivet snaps. Sweet!

On occasions I will use only the bow partial. That still provides wave splash and spray protection, sun shielding for the food barrel (and my pale legs) and convenient paddle pocket storage. And some helpful wind occlusion on the front end of the hull.

heck, I like using covers on dense swampy trips. Low hung branches aren’t grabbing at the thwarts or gear, and most of the swampy leaf litter that would otherwise fall into the hull - twigs and effing sharp pointy holly leaves and weird leggy-arse spiders - stays outside where they belong.

Nope, gimme spray covers, or partial spray covers, or even parts of partial spray covers.

 

[Big Al]

Mike,I somehow missed this thread! Does anyone know of a source for this cover? The Mad River site is terrible.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I agree that a spray cover can keep out rain, keep out some wave slop, keep out the sun, keep in some heat in cold weather, and can somewhat reduce wind effects on a hull. Marathon racers sometimes use them for the windage reason.

The question is whether those benefits outweigh the costs of time, hassle, weight and cost. The answer can differ from paddler to paddler, or from type of trip to type of trip.

Let's start with serious whitewater day paddling or tripping -- i.e., where the vast majority of the time you are actually running rapids. I remain adamant that the dangers of canoe covers for serious whitewater paddling in open canoes outweighs any benefits. Other than myself in 1980 paddling a MR Explorer with a custom made full Cordura canoe cover, with quick release cockpit skirts, and a nine foot Carlisle double paddle -- quite the rara avis -- I have never since known any serious open canoe whitewater paddler who uses a fabric spray cover. I'm not sure there are any open canoe whitewater paddlers left, actually -- kayaks having taken over the waterworld -- but the practice was always to fully bag open canoes and perhaps also to add planks of ethafoam side flotation. Bailing and dumping water out of open canoes is simply an intrinsic part of whitewater open canoeing. So is heeling the boat to avoid water intake in big waves. Whitewater paddling in New England in winter and spring is a cold and wet sport. Any whitewater paddler who is afraid of getting wet falls into the same category as skier who's afraid of getting snow on her nose or a hiker who's afraid of getting dirt on his soles. Spray skirts in this kind of serious whitewater are not only an entanglement hazard but seriously retard the ability to empty a boat that does fill up.

Most canoeing doesn't fall in that serious whitewater category.

I am not a Canadian wilderness tripper and never have been. Therefore, I have never had to consider whether a lightweight canoe cover or skirt would benefit me on such a trip. But I know what my answer would be, traumatized as I was by my 1980-81 experiences in the mountains of Northern California.

I'm not a racer, so windage streamlining is of minor interest to me.

I never paddle in lake wind waves big enough to go over my gunwales. That's more scary and dangerous to me than paddling class 4 whitewater. I'm on the bank sipping decaffeinated green tea and eating Reese's peanut butter cups, or cringing under my Dan Cooke 10x12 silnylon tarp.

As for normal flatwater day trips, the benefits of spray covers simply don't outweigh the costs to me.

However, all those opinions are based on my personal experience and preferences, which differ from a lot of paddlers in a lot of areas. I encourage all new and experimenting paddlers to try out spray skirts and other paddling paraphernalia and form your own opinions on these things. That's more educational and fun that reading internet opinions or watching YouTube videos.

Besides, being a gear slut is an intrinsic part of all serious paddling.

P.S. Using a double paddle is not canoeing, so a spray cover for double paddle drip is irrelevant. Hit and switch paddle drip . . . maybe.

 

[Mason]

I've used spray decks in two situations--open water canoe racing in skinny boats, and northern expeditions which include whitewater and big lakes. For the racing, we used plastic sheeting (Visqueen) duct taped to the boat--without it, we would have not made it (paddling a Wenonah SCR) in the waves we experienced--I was doing a lot of bracing just to keep the bottom pointed down. On the northern trip, the deck is useful for a loaded canoe in whitewater, as bailing a loaded canoe as you do in an empty WW day trip is a lot more problematic--you can't just through the bow on shore and lift the stern--even tipping it sideways can be difficult with 30-45 days of gear in it. On big lakes with their waves, I'm sold on decks--they keep a lot of water out of the boat, primarily amidships, but in the bow also. Of course you want to stick close to shore, but you can't always do that on a big trip, unless you have many extra days and miles to spare. One person bailing while the other paddles on a 4 mile crossing doesn't appeal to me--I'd rather stay drier with both of us paddling like heck to reduce our exposure.

That being said, I don't own a cover for my boats. For my solo, I'm way to conservative paddling alone to want to deal with taking in water on a lake (and then my solos are 14 and 15 inches deep). I've thought about making some covers (they sure look neat), but I start thinking otherwise when considering portages. I don't plan taking my tandem (Clipper WW3, another deep boat) on too big a trip, as the sucker is too friendly with gravity (73 pounds). For my whitewater boat, I have float bags.

I do think covers are luxurious for rainy trips, though.

 

[Guest]

Mike,I somehow missed this thread! Does anyone know of a source for this cover?

Al, that is a bow (or stern) spray shield for a Mad River canoe with IQ gunwales, and really only useable on a hull with IQ gunwales. It is the black spray shield in a photo in the original post. The black “belly cover” shown in that post is also an IQ accessory.

MRC no longer makes canoes with IQ gunwales, nor any IQ accessories. FWIW a bow spray shield ran $85 and a belly cover $109.

If you own an IQ gunwale hull the good news is that those and other accessories, which slide into channels in the outwale or inwale via a bolt rope, are easy to DIY. The “lash in” strips that slide into the inwale channel were the most useful of IQ accessories, and the easiest to DIY.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...o-diy-accessories-for-the-mad-river-iq-system

 

[Big Al]

Mike, no I don't have and IQ system but the shape of that solo bow skirt seems perfect. I know I could modify the attachment mechanisms

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Al, if you're mainly a kayaker, prefer a double blade, are unlikely to portage, and like the idea of decking, perhaps you could consider a decked canoe. Some have very large cockpits so are sort of semi-decked, such as the Wenonah Canak 15' or 16'.

 

[Big Al]

Too many choices! Lol. I’ve been taking my canoe on my local class2- lately. I really like the open hull and the ability to easily take my camping gear but I hate bypassing wave trains. I think a splash skirt on the front would really help. I’m bailing for now!

 

[Guest]

Mike, no I don't have and IQ system but the shape of that solo bow skirt seems perfect. I know I could modify the attachment mechanisms

The IQ gunwale system and accessories are circa 2002/2004, and were short lived. Some of the accessories were useful, others less so. The IQ gunwales themselves were heavy, with a stiff, beefy, complex structure incorporating feeder channels in both inwale and outwale.

10 years out of production I kinda doubt any paddleshop still has IQ stuff around, but you might find it on E-bay or Craigslist (and know what it retailed for). Maybe for disgruntled cheap; some shaped accessories did not work as well as others, depending on the shape and dimensions of a particular canoe.

The IQ spray shields did have a lot of nice features; arched stays for a bit of a cowling/drainage effect, an adjustable tensioner at the stem for a pulled tight fit and Velcro painter keepers. And some downside issues.

Shaped accessories like spray shields and belly covers need to fit the vee of the stems or belly line dimensions, and MRC only made two variants (solo and tandem), so that best “fit” was not always the case.

Worse, the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] generation spray shields and belly covers did not zip open into two separate pieces, so that each piece could be independently slid into the appropriate channel and then be zipped together. Major design flaw.

Those early one-piece spray shields and belly covers without zippers were a PITA to “slide” into the channels. One person, with some struggles, straddling the canoe, could incrementally, an inch at a time on each side, slide a /\ bow spray shield into place. Installing an unzippered IQ belly cover was a two person nightmare struggle, even with a helper on the opposite side. Glenn would have spit out his dentures on invective before walking away in disgust.

The re-design incorporating zippers did eliminate most of that struggle, and the un-zippered stuff lent itself better to adaptation.

I have a set of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] gen no-zipper IQ spray shields, and thought about install snap rivets on them and on corresponding locations on a couple non-IQ canoes. On inspection it seemed that those covers would fit on an ancient Explorer, a Freedom Solo and a Mohawk Odyssey. All of those canoes have through hull in-out-in-out lacing for float bags, providing a length of lacing cord just below the outwale.

In redneck engineering simplest solution I attached a short piece of cord to the covers and tied the other cord end off inside a small plastic toggle. That toggle simply tucks tightly under the exterior lacing.

It looks like crude (I should at least have used black toggles), and on the Explorer the wider span doesn’t provide the full amount of arch from the stays sewn into the covers. But it works like a charm on all three canoes, takes only seconds to install and holds the spray shields firmly in place.

As daytripping spray shields they are too far away to be useful in displacing paddle drips from kayakers with canoeist pretentions, paddling a canoe with a double blade. But in any case they still shed some wave spray, shade the float bags from hot sun over inflation (and puncture and UV degradation) and maybe do a teeny bit for higher stemmed hulls and windage reduction.

P2260056 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The toggles simply tuck under lacing cord outside hull below gunwales. For full open access I can just undo the toggles on one side and flop the cover over.

P2260059 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The last toggle is pulled back instead of down, to hold the cover tight and taut.

P2260057 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Small clips would look less ugly, but clips can be a chore to get unsnapped. The fugly toggles have proven so easy to attach and undo that I have never changed them for another solution, and I’m not sure what that easy alternative would be.

I am still interested in DIY spray cover attachment mechanism ideas. Not a fan of Velcro, nor of Northwater-ish loops and vinyl patches and holes drilled 5 inches below the gunwales. I’m left with snap rivets, or toggles/clips under through hull lacing, or ?????

 

[Gdwelker]

How do you do a deep water rescue on a canoe that has a full spray cover?

 

[Guest]

How do you do a deep water rescue on a canoe that has a full spray cover?

Greg, good question, and I do not have an answer. I suspect that a full CCS or Northwater style anchoring system on a full cover would pose a challenge. I recall one tale of a paddler’s Newfoundland jumping atop a snap rivet cover without implosion. Somehow perching even my bulk atop an attached cover might be akin to a mechanical bull ride and I doubt I make it to 8 seconds even in calm water.

At least with cockpit coming stretchy rand covers on sea kayaks or some decked boats the whole thing may come off with the swimmer, especially if there is a webbing loop to pull. Which may not be a good thing with an 8 foot long Sea Wind or Monarch cover draped around the swimmers legs. Never been there or done that, don’t wanna.

I hadn’t given recovery or rescue issues much thought, but it is another instance where I prefer partial covers with an open “cockpit”

P2160541 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I do like the detachable bow tunnel on the Cronje’s full cover, although I considered that function handiest so the bowman could quickly enter or exit still mini-skirted when launching or landing.

P7140020 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The only time I have had qualms about using a cover was on a windy cypress swamp lake. I came upon a group of foreign tourists in rental Grummans, a half dozen canoes each with a mother/father/child combo, in matching uniforms, none with even a tiny clue as to how paddle or even sit in a canoe.

In a few minutes observation I saw several near capsizes, canoes lodged on cypress knees or blown into the trees passengers leaning in the wrong direction, and was certain someone was capsizing soon. I suspected there would be a language barrier, and thought hard about my potential part in this, damaging my covers in a Grumman boat-over, or swimming myself in an attempt to assist the panicked.

I felt kinda bad about it, but I turned tail and ran away. They had, at that point, blown a couple miles downwind, into the dense feeder stream swamp entrance, and their hope of ever paddling back upwind to the rental launch was nil, so I reported what I had seen and anticipated would happen next, and told the livery folks “If you ever want to see them or your boats again you better go get them”.

So, good question. I’d like to hear from anyone who has swum out of a spray covered canoe, or helped in any kind of boat & paddler recover while under a full canoe skirt.

 

[Gdwelker]

I have tested thhe kruger Seawind with full cover on, with bow and stern air bags. Works like a sea kayak rescue, but a lot of water. I now carry an electric bilge pump.