Another New To Me Canoe

[dave0]

Had the fortune of picking up a Bell Rob Roy this weekend. It's a 1997 and of course needs a little work here and there. I can paddle it as is right now and once my back is up to it, threw it out again last night, I'll be taking it out for a test spin. For its age it is pretty darn good shape. The guy I bought it from did a hack job on the gunwales and the stems need either skid plates or re gelcoated (not my cup of tea!) Have all winter to mull that over though. Added a few pictures. On the gunwales I believe he actually either glued them together or used resin, my guess is Gorilla glue from the residue so I may just sand them even and retreat them. It weighs in at about 35 pds so is a joy to pick up and move around. Am wondering if it is just Kevlar though as I can see a hint of black in the layup. Just can't seem to find enough info from that year on this boat though. Since I'm not a gifted wood worker this is much more up my alley as far as fixing it up!

 

[BWCA66]

Nice pickup, looks good for an almost 20 year old boat. I have never been able to get myself comfortable or used to paddling something where I need to sit on the bottom but that's just me.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I hope y'all can help Doug D not put skid plates on that lovely Rob Roy. Clearly someone else was not respectful of her lines and she needs fixing. But skid plates... I'm not a repair expert. I put bondo and gel on my Heron.. not the prettiest. Surely there is a better way.

 

[Guest]

I hope y'all can help Doug D not put skid plates on that lovely Rob Roy. Clearly someone else was not respectful of her lines and she needs fixing. But skid plates... I'm not a repair expert. I put bondo and gel on my Heron.. not the prettiest. Surely there is a better way.

I know that Doug plans the “better way”. The original owner smeared some resin on the worn into the cloth stems. Why the original owner need to drag portage a 33 lb boat, at both ends no less, is a mystery.

Sanded smooth, covered with a single narrow vee of Dynel and white tinted epoxy resin, with release treated peel ply to compress the resin-swollen Dynel. Spray painted white for UV protection and the skid plates will be invisible.

The rest of the hull is in amazingly good shape.

The interior photo with the “Caution – Safety” label shows the twill layup. What was that twill material, carbon and kevlar? I’m curious what composite materials were used in a 1997 Bell Rob Roy.

I’m thinking Doug is gonna like that boat.

 

[dave0]

Actually Dynel skid plates is my go to for damage this bad although the resin, applied in a haphazardly fashion, does protect those areas. I just don't like the looks of it. As Mike said, Dynel applied using Peel Ply makes for a tight bond and does compress it enough to keep a clean transition which is not all that noticeable, in fact hiding most of that damage without adding more then a few oz to the weight of the boat. Not those fugly kevlar plates that look like hell. I'm just not a Gel Coat guru and certainly don't want to learn on this hull. Paid for some done on another sweet hull and the danger of not matching the tint is clear as daylight.

 

[Alan Gage]

The black and brown weave used by Bell is just Kevlar of two different types woven together, one of which is black. Plenty of confusion online with people thinking the black/brown weave is carbon woven in, making it a Black Gold layup. I myself suffered from this delusion when I bought my Bell Magic as that's what I was told by the original owner. Didn't figure out the truth until years later. The real black gold layup will have a full outer layer of carbon and most don't have a gel coat so it's pretty obvious.

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

From Charlie Wilson who was at Bell at the time

"Bell's old tweed fabric was 75% yellow K49, 25% black K29." There was a red Kevlar ( 100 percent K 29) for a while which was not satisfactory in taking up resin.

 

[Guest]

The black and brown weave used by Bell is just Kevlar of two different types woven together, one of which is black. Plenty of confusion online with people thinking the black/brown weave is carbon woven in, making it a Black Gold layup. I myself suffered from this delusion when I bought my Bell Magic as that's what I was told by the original owner. Didn't figure out the truth until years later. The real black gold layup will have a full outer layer of carbon and most don't have a gel coat so it's pretty obvious.

Thanks. I didn’t think Bell used carbon on the Rob Roy in ’97, and carbon seems most often left ultra-light black visible

I looked at my old specs for Doug, and Bell offered three different lay ups on the Rob Roy in ’97; Fiberglass at 44 lbs, Fiberglass & Kevlar at 38 lbs and Kevlar at 33 lbs.

Doug needs to hang that boat from his weight scale, but I’d guess that HIN (3[SUP]rd[/SUP] photo) indicates a kevlar model built in August of 1997.

 

[stripperguy]

Doug,
That Rob Roy looks exactly like the one that a dude from Vt. offered to swap even for my stripped DY Special.
AT the time, I was still working three jobs and just needed to make room in my garage.
You've got a valuable boat there, I'm sure you'll bring it back to its former glory.

 

[pblanc]

It might well be possible to wet sand that resin off the hull. I have a Sawyer Summersong, the bottom and stems of which had some type of rather ugly resin applied and I got it off by wet sanding and it looks pretty good.

But the stem damage where there is missing gel coat and possibly some missing fabric is another matter. This will need to be filled in and faired in some fashion. Gel coat material and auto body putty like Bondo is typically a polyester material and polyester resins and putties will not cure reliably over epoxy. So unless it is known with certainty that the resin that was applied is not an epoxy, it would be necessary to get all of it off down to bare cloth.

It is easier to get an approximate color match with gel coat on a light colored boat like this one, but the match is seldom perfect unless you can get from Bell some of the gel coat used on the original boat. Even then there will usually be a difference because gel coat does fade some with age.

An alternative is to sand off the excess resin, fill in the divots with thickened epoxy, sand fair and flush, and find a paint that closely matches the color of the gel coat. If I wanted to avoid putting on a "plate" that is what I would do.

As Mike said, abrasion plates don't have to be thick or ugly. Often it is easiest to simply fill in and fair the divots and apply one layer of cloth. If a very thin, smooth plate is desired I would use fiberglass. Glass can be sanded very smooth and the edges can easily be feathered to a very fine edge. A single layer of 6 oz/sq yd fiberglass will stand barely proud of the surrounding hull. A single layer of 4 oz cloth will be thinner still and probably quite adequate for the type of use a boat like this will typically see.

Dynel is good but it will result in a thicker plate and it is somewhat more trouble if you want to get a glass smooth surface.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Ask Charlie Wilson. He worked with Bell then. I don't believe Bell every used epoxy. But I believe, and he Knows.

 

[Alan Gage]

Ask Charlie Wilson. He worked with Bell then. I don't believe Bell every used epoxy. But I believe, and he Knows.

Bell might not have used epoxy but no one knows what the previous owner smeared on there.

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

Bell might not have used epoxy but no one knows what the previous owner smeared on there.

Alan

I'd be surprised if there was anything besides wishful thinking

 

[Alan Gage]

It might well be possible to wet sand that resin off the hull.

I've always wondered....is there a difference between wet and dry sanding other than the amount of dust generated and possibly keeping the paper from loading up?

Alan

 

[pblanc]

Good question, Alan. I am not really sure but I seem to have a better feel for the drag on the paper when it is wet so it is easier for me to tell when a particular area has been sufficiently sanded with a particular grade. When sanding down to bare cloth, or sanding excess epoxy I think it is very worthwhile to keep the dust down. Definitely seems to help reduce the fiberglass itch and I don't care to be breathing epoxy dust. When applying abrasion plates I usually add graphite powder to the epoxy. That stuff can aerosolize pretty easily and I don't want that dust all over the place even if I am wearing a respirator.

 

[dave0]

Well, I won't be doing any of the stem work until warmer weather = unheated workshop. They are good enough for now but I do like the info on wet sanding, only have done a little in the past. Going to try to see first if the gunwales are glued/resined together and if so will just sand them down even and retreat them. Hopefully if my bad back allows I'll take it out this weekend and see if I even like it...I think I will. Stripperguy, I got this from a gent in Essex Junction, VT, same guy?

 

[yellowcanoe]

If you don't like it I'd gladly exchange it for a pole. ..LOL. somehow not fair.

 

[stripperguy]

I've always wondered....is there a difference between wet and dry sanding other than the amount of dust generated and possibly keeping the paper from loading up?

Alan

Alan,

In a former life, I spent some time prepping metalurgical samples for analysis, they had to be polished to better than a 1 microinch finish using finer and finer grades of silicon carbide paper. All polishing was done wet, it was the only way to prevent swarf (a combo of spent abrasive and removed material) from contaminating the surface and degrading the finish.

 

[stripperguy]

Well, I won't be doing any of the stem work until warmer weather = unheated workshop. They are good enough for now but I do like the info on wet sanding, only have done a little in the past. Going to try to see first if the gunwales are glued/resined together and if so will just sand them down even and retreat them. Hopefully if my bad back allows I'll take it out this weekend and see if I even like it...I think I will. Stripperguy, I got this from a gent in Essex Junction, VT, same guy?

Gotta be the same guy. He wanted to swap even for my stripped DY Special, which I was asking $1,000 for. At the time I was much too busy to even think about taking on another project. After I refused his offer, I did my research and saw how marketable that boat remains. Obviously, you inspected those stems thoroughly, I was basing my decisions on some poor resolution photos that he emailed directly to me.
I'd say you have a keeper, for sure. A little stem repair, a fresh coat of Interlux on the lower half, some easy gunnel work and you've got a great boat that will last a lifetime, maybe two!

 

[latremorej]

That's a nice boat, I hope your back is mending. It will be nice to see pictures of it on the water

Jason