Algonquin Park secret lake hotspot - Freedom of Information Act used to find identity

[frozentripper]

Dunno if anybody here has been following this little brouhaha going on about Algonquin Park but it's getting attention elsewhere... someone who will not be named in public saw a great YouTube vid with trophy brook trout being caught in a secret Algonquin lake and now is using the Freedom of information Act to legally put the screws to the Ontario government, to find out the identity and location of the secret brook trout hotspot.

The secret hotspot lake identity may be on the Interior Travel Permit that was issued to the angler that caught the trophy trout, and so far the Ministry of Natural Resources may be stalling and doesn't confirm or deny knowledge of the secret lake, or they can't be bothered searching for it.

Not giving up, the individual that will not be named has appealed and has issued another FOI request and now with a more recent news release, it seems there are commercial interests at play here... my guess only, and mentioning no names for fear of drive-by shootings on the way to the next canoe trip... it wouldn't surprise me if it was one of those professional TV fishing show celebrities or a gear manufacturer, which would draw in a lot of eyeballs and advertising $$$. OTOH MNR should just carry on with SOP and give the FOI individual an incorrect lake name, like they often do over the phone and with port or campsite locations.

Holy moley. Only three hours north of Toronto. Gotta buy some gear.

"A lot of anglers will fish their entire life and not accomplish what my son and I did in Algonquin Park," Borger said. "People travel to places like Labrador and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars in pursuit of trophy brook trout, and don't do as well as my son and I did three hours north of Toronto. So, it didn't surprise me in the slightest."



Filer identity will remain secret

And yes, Borger does know who filed the FOI. He's not divulging that, however.

"I am absolutely not a vindictive person,`he said. "I have absolutely no desire to say anything publicly, because it serves no purpose."

"All I'm going to say is, if the general public at large actually knew who filed the request, I guarantee you it would be a crazy story," Borger said. "It's one thing if a private individual is trying to find the name or the location of my fishing spot. It's a very, very different thing when it's not necessarily a private individual, and the person is looking for this information so that it can be exploited for their own monetary gain."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunde...peal-1.4360574

 

[27 ELKS]

If the government does not release the location to the filer, what's to keep Mr. Borger (or anyone that finds himself in this position in the future) from selling the info to the filer himself? This is in no way questioning Mr. Borger's integrity, it's a hypothetical question. You can put an ad on Craigslist or list on ebay the GPS coordinates, lure used, time of day, sunny or overcast, etc. to the highest bidder. I see all kinds of problems either way.

 

[Mihun09]

The way he is holding the fish exaggerates the size for the camera. Common way to enhance a smaller fish.
Had the fisher not mentioned the general location of the secret lake, there would be no issue at all. Bragging seems to be the culprit here that could eventually hurt the fishery.

jmo

 

[frozentripper]

There are lawyer's comments on the merits of the FOI request here.... hit the radio link and BTW it's only five dollars to file a FOI request.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/foi-fishing-jordan-lester-1.4239573

I wouldn't be too worried about this sort of thing damaging the fishery... BT lakes can be hot one year and cold the next as strong year-classes pass through the population an dthen disappear. IIRC one year a fishing celebrity, maybe Angelo Viola, asked MNR for the location of a really hot lake to film in since the staff had all the info. They drove him in on the logging road network to the much-anticipated superhot hotspot and the filming for the fishing show began. And they caught zero fish... absolutely nothing. Still don't know whether MNR staff were sincere in giving out the lake location or were they having a good time with it all and spent their time rolling on the floor laughing over it afterwards. I've spent time with conservation officers and they do enjoy telling about this sort of stuff off the record.

 

[sweeper]

Fishermen and Morel hunters, cut from the same cloth.

There are no friends during Morel season.

 

[DayTripper99]

The MNRF will never give up the location of the lake simply because they cant - the lake has no campsites and no maintained portage and th shoreline is choked with tag alders, cedar, and pine - too thick to even pitch a tent for the day.

 

[memaquay]

After my experience moose hunting this year at a lake I publicized on line, expecting no one to be able to reach it, but finding several there when I arrived, I will from here on in, call all lakes with good fishing that I happen to mention on line "Secret Lake". Freedom of Information weenies can take a good long suck of me Nova Scotian arse!

 

[Holmes375]

After my experience moose hunting this year at a lake I publicized on line, expecting no one to be able to reach it, but finding several there when I arrived, I will from here on in, call all lakes with good fishing that I happen to mention on line "Secret Lake". Freedom of Information weenies can take a good long suck of me Nova Scotian arse!

Amen!

 

[DanOver]

I feel the original poster of the spot did the work to find a great spot. And hands out front or not, that is a great Brookie. The world record is just under 16 lbs.

He should have just mislabeled the lake by a few miles and smiled. If he wants to share the info of the real spot, it's his rice bowl. I will find a hot spot on a river and have someone drive or hike by and ask how the fishing was. "I go a limit of carp in 2 hours!" is my usual response. Unless it is an old timer or kids. They get all my good spot info as a matter of honor and karma.

 

[DayTripper99]

Just returned from this lake and it is everything Mike has shown in his videos. Arguably my best brook trout fishing trip ever, but also the most challenging to get to. Two fit men took 6 days to fish it for a day. One day we traversed over 30km's, half of them over land.

 

[memaquay]

 

[Odyssey]

I've been struggling for a number of years with whether I should share routes, lakes and excellent campsite locations or keep it all to myself. Seems selfish not to share, but all too often the moment a good thing is shared with the world it gets overused. Many years ago I read an article by Kevin Callan describing his first trip through a region in south Temagami. It was virtually untouched by canoe trippers; only the occasional camp group and fisher would travel through. I pinned that article up on a bulletin board in my basement office swearing I'd trip there some day. Years later Kevin admitted he regretted writing that article as Chiniguchi has seen abuse. It begs the question "Is it better to share or keep it to myself?" I don't know the answer, I'm still trying to work that out for myself. You don't have to wet a line to feel protective of a special place. I'm gathering trails and lakes, campsites and locations, unsure of which inner voice I'll heed, to share with all or hoard for myself. It's funny, I sometimes read online a mention of a route I love, and think both "Oh noooo! Nobody pay attention to this!" and "Oh good! I'm glad others will discover this little gem!" I have quietly paddled by other paddlers and seen the smiles on their faces, and thought how good it made me feel seeing they'd found this special place. And I've also seen the trash and abuse these special places have suffered and had black thoughts when seeing paddlers passing by. I would never have found these places myself if someone somewhere hadn't shared them.

 

[Guest]

I've been struggling for a number of years with whether I should share routes, lakes and excellent campsite locations or keep it all to myself. Seems selfish not to share, but all too often the moment a good thing is shared with the world it gets overused.
It begs the question "Is it better to share or keep it to myself?" I don't know the answer, I'm still trying to work that out for myself. You don't have to wet a line to feel protective of a special place.
I would never have found these places myself if someone somewhere hadn't shared them.

There is a lot to consider there Rob.

I have shared information in the past on hot spots for duckhunting, and felt comfortable in doing so because I doubted many folks would go to the lengths and effort required to get there, and we never saw evidence of increased hunting with that drag-the-canoe-far-back-into-the-marsh location.

I would be less likely to share fishing honey holes, except perhaps with friends sworn to secrecy. Well, once*

Routes and campsite recommendations I will share freely, on-line, with one and all, at least here in the selective CT community. However I typically paddle and camp in well travelled areas, so that stuff is not exactly privileged information, or hard to find elsewhere with a little research.

And I understand why, when I am traveling, the locals are often reticent about sharing much information. There have been a few golden Oh you should go here referrals from locals; often as not old boys well met in some diner or cafe who struck up a friendly conversation.

More often such information has come from fellow travelers met at a launch, trailhead or campsite, who were enthusiastic in recommending some little known spot. And I share and share alike my favorite places with them. Most of my favorite places, not all.

There is one special spot I have kept semi-secret. A long petroglyph wall in $#%^# National Park. Not on any park literature, map or guidebook I have ever seen, and when I mentioned finding it to a Ranger after the trip he kinda finger-to-lips ssssshhed me.

That was not hard to understand; the wall has not been defaced, and there is a lot of cryptobiotic soil to carefully skirt around across the desert in getting to the canyon mouth.

That petroglyph wall is not hard to find; X-quarters of the way around the *&^(% Trail a tall feature called the ^@!*( +*&^%$ stands alone in the distance. In X-direction below ^@!*( +*&^%$ there is a narrow slot canyon cleft that ends at the sheer edge of the #^^*&#$ escarpment, which provides an mind blowing high vantage vista out across (*)^%$#$$@ Creek and meadow.

The petroglyph wall is wonderful, with weird spacemen figures and other WTFs, but simply sitting at the edge of that escarpment looking out across the meadow far below is even better.

We found that petroglyph canyon in 1988 on a backpacking trip, and I have shared it with only a handful of friends. Often including a hand drawn map on a bar napkin, so alcohol may have been involved in the shared trust.

*I did once share a fabulous fishing honeyhole. Accent on the fabulous defined as having no basis in reality.

On a Gentlemens trip to Assateague two of the guys were enthusiastic fishermen. Who, to my knowledge, rarely caught any fish and had always been skunked at Assateague, both ocean side and bayside.

I had previously been privileged to see one of them make a decent cast with a surf rod on the Atlantic side, with a whopping 100 feet of line on the reel. 100 feet of unattached to the reel at the bitter end. And to see the other gent cast a spinning reel into the Potomac; actually cast the reel, which somehow departed from the rod and flew a good distance out into the river. That takes special skills.

While watching our intrepid fishermen getting ready to paddle off from camp ISO the elusive Chincoteague Bay bass or flounder, someone, it may have been me, started a side conversation with one of the other gents about Man, could you believe all the fish back in that pool!

Catching on instantly his reply came Yeah, I have never seen that many fish in my life. I think when the tide went out they got trapped in there. And etc, Whadda ya think they were? Gee, I dunno, big fish, maybe striped bass, or sea bass?

This overheard conversation having had the desired effect on our intrepid fishermen details were produced, complete with a rugged route through the shallows penciled on a map to access the fabulous tidal honeyhole. With trickster partner discussion about whether it was Go left at this bifurcation and No, I think it was left at the next fork, and then wade across the shallows. There are a thousand convoluted guts, channels and shallows back in that marsh.

A hard to find honeyhole which, of course, did not exist. But it was well sold, and they spent the better part of a day paddling and mud slogging to this and that tidal pond.

They got to explore the deepest parts of the marsh that no sane person would attempt, but somehow found this less amusing than the rest of us.

 

[deerfly]

High traffic fishing forums refer to it as hot spotting. The internet seems to have created an enhanced need for people to share too much info with some of this stuff. For me it comes down to what I'm doing and where. Highly traveled or commonly known places I don't mind sharing locations and techniques in the spirit of motivating more people to take up the sport. Places I've worked long and hard to figure out or those shown to me by others in confidence remain under wraps. These past few years I've gotten to where it takes so long to prepare and editorialize a report worth reading that I don't bother at all regardless of where it was and what I did.

That said, my mentors in the ways of all things outdoors where a crusty old bunch of Fl Keys fishing guides and commercial fisherman. One of them in particular was fond of saying there are no secret spots anymore, the secret is knowing when to be there and what to do when you get there...

 

[ErktheRed]

Just stumbled on this topic while searching for another one. Hypocritically searching. I was searching for a route I myself have never heard of, but find it to look like a good trip for my brother and I to do. Or just do in general. I read all of these comments and I can’t agree more with some responses here.

When I post on social media, I purposely leave no tags of the area I’m in. I may talk about “our trip to BC, or “just got back from paddling Canada”, but I rarely mention the exact location openly. Some people will comment and ask where, others who know the joy of having gems will send me a private message. And depending on who it is, I might be accurate or very vague. I know it’s kind of an A-hole thing to do and it’s greedy, but I’m tired of seeing a lack of care and appreciation for these places.

I’m fortunate to to have been born and grew up in such a beautiful area that people from all of the world come visit. Very very fortunate, and appreciative. I live and work in areas that sees more tourists each year and each year more plants are destroyed more social trails are created and more trash is floating around. Usually, within a short walking distance from the trash cans. Every time there’s a news article of Northern Michigan, a front cover on a magazine, or whatever, I cringe and say “great!” I have become more cynical of people coming here and have become more Locals Only these days. I see how our area has been bogged down, more alcohol tours, faster drivers, angrier people, more drugs and homeless. I see more trash, more entitled pedestrians crossing the street without looking. I see a beautiful home town lose its appeal.

The same thing happens to the trails and backcountry. I’ve been at pretty far off the trail sites that’s covered in food scraps, trash and human feces. I see it along the popular trails, toilet paper everywhere.

So to get back on course here before I go post a large “Go Home” sign in my front yard… I Love seeing the joy on faces when paddling by. Or running into that fellow tripper and exchanging information and stories. I love the interactions. It’s how I’ve been able to go to different areas, information exchanged. However, it breaks my heart to see wild landscapes littered with filth and broken glass. There’s a lot of reasons I trip into the backcountry, beauty is one of them. So unless I’m having a random conversation with a fellow tripper, or talking to a good friend, I will leave important information out or mention a different location entirely. For me, the more remote and harder the trek, usually means the more spiritual. And people don’t want hard, they just want.

 

[Woodpuppy]

Something my family has always done, whether we were the locals or the tourists, is pack out found trash. We did in in Boy Scouts too. I do the same now with my kids, as well as on the job. We always have grocery bags balled up and stashed in our vehicles and in my dry bag on the boat.

Next time I float the Wacissa, I need to get a replacement rake handle and screw a long drywall screw into the end, then cut the head off. This makes a beer can pickerupper that’s hard to rival.