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Double paddle..worth it?

Think I've asked this before, but when one is cruising along with the Devil's Double Blade, what sort of speeds are you averaging, let's say on flat water, minimal wind? On my gps, single sticking, I'm usually between 6 and 7 k and hour without trying too hard.
 
I cruise along mindlessly at 5.5 to 6 kph in most situations with my double blade, I own no kayak paddles or Kayaks but my ADK Pac boat could be called a topless kayak. It likes 7 kph using my Werner Camano 260.

I am sensing here that we are getting pleasure from different parts of the paddling experience. My pleasures come from observing what lies back in the trees as I move along. I just want my canoe to go straight down the lakeshore without having to think about it.
 
Please, pretty please quit calling them kayak paddles ....
I'm sorry, Brian. In this case, the "kayak" reference is completely intentional. :LOL:

Besides, those kayak paddles are used exclusively in the 'yaks and I have yet to see one paddled with a canoe paddle. (again... intentional :))

I just want my canoe to go straight down the lakeshore without having to think about it.
Muscle memory is a wonderful thing. As a former coach once said: "don't practice until you do it right; practice until you cannot do it wrong".
I've found that this typically translates to anything in life regardless of which "tools" you use.
 
One thing that would maybe help is if we could actually find a double longer than 230. I've never seen one here. But I wouldn't want to carry the weight anyway.
 
But wherever one is in that single blade paddling progression, the easy crack cocaine of a double blade paddle is likely to end the motivation to progress any further. And the biggest loss and irony in that, in my opinion, is that the cocaine will actually prevent the paddler from getting the aesthetic endorphin "high" that proficient single blade boat control produces.
Glenn I sense you're poking fun here but I think the joke lands a bit flat after so many have already said they prefer a single blade in many circumstances but elect to use the double to make miles. I'm in that group as well. If anything my double-blade technique wallows because I spend nearly all my time practicing with a single blade.

But my most efficient solo is a Phoenix, and it doesn't sit-and-switch very well because it's not that efficient of a boat - it's not meant to go straight. So if I want to make miles on deep flatwater I will often use a double to get up a lake, then switch back to a single for enjoying, finesse, etc. I also find on longer trips it's nice to switch up the biomechics periodically.

Personally I don't find bent shaft paddles particularly aesthetically appealing and the few times I've tried them, they felt terrible as soon as I tried a correction stroke. But I don't lambast them as the devil's work, I recognize I'm ignorant about them and respect folks who can make good use of them - different strokes for different folks!

For the sake of the OP @Blukanu , I use a fishing kayak paddle (an Adventure Tech model that I think is off the market) that extends from 240cm to 250cm. I sometimes wish it was longer when soloing my tandems (from the bow seat backwards). It can be feathered at any angle. I will adjust the feather, usually between 45 and 60deg depending on wind and how my wrists are feeling. In some wind directions I find a double suits, in some winds a single does better.

I also use my double as a pole in flatwater, something that can't be done with a single standing up.

Cruiser is right, Bending Branches and others make doubles specifically for canoes, but these days fishing kayaks are really popular, and they tend to be wider and sit higher off the water than other kayaks, so fishing kayak paddles can also serve for canoes and they open up a wider market of purchase options for those so inclined. I have a BB Navigator w a carbon shaft and wood blades. The wood blades are buoyant and the carbon is light, which I like, but I got the version w smaller blades that only extends to 250cm, and it's both a little short and a little underpowered for a tandem canoe. I think the fishing kayak version might be better. I also hate the way mine locks because it tends to come loose, but I think they fixed that in later models.
 
wherever one is in that single blade paddling progression, the easy crack cocaine of a double blade paddle is likely to end the motivation to progress any further.

Glenn I sense you're poking fun here but I think the joke lands a bit flat after so many have already said they prefer a single blade in many circumstances but elect to use the double to make miles.

No, Tsuga, I'm not joking; I'm quite serious. Allow me to be blunt: Anyone (physically able) who "elects" to use a double blade for any purpose in a canoe is doing so because they have lost their motivation to learn and practice doing it with a single blade, which most assuredly can be done. Hundreds of thousands of single bladers do it, whatever it is, as witnessed by the fact that no double blade ever enters their hulls.

Having said that, I don't really care what people use to propel their watercraft and have absolutely no animus or hostility towards any sort of paddle.

It's simply that one of my niches or "things" on the internet and real life is being a proponent and teacher of single blade technique. Some folks' "things" on this site are, for example, being proponents of wooden canoes, traditional gear, lightweight boats and gear, freestyle technique, lake to lake portage tripping, poling, barren lands river tripping, whitewater, racing, double blading, etc. I believe I have a solid theoretical and practical understanding of canoe physics, paddle hydrodynamics, and boat control with a single blade in flat and white water. Thus, those are some of the things on which I focus when trying to teach, preach and pass on my experience.

Of course I could make arguments in favor of double blades, but I'll leave that to others whose "thing" that is. Liberal education is offering and listening to civil arguments on all sides of all issues. That's what I hope threads like this, and this site as a whole, can offer. No joke.
 
Good post Glenn! I'm jesting of course when I call it the Devil's Dirty Double Blade, and I paddle with a fella who uses one, plus I like motorized canoes, but on the other hand, you will never see one of those fugly things in my canoe, it's like bringing a five dollar bottle of plunk to a wine testing party.
 
Of course I could make arguments in favor of double blades, but I'll leave that to others whose "thing" that is. Liberal education is offering and listening to civil arguments on all sides of all issues. That's what I hope threads like this, and this site as a whole, can offer. No joke.

I'll offer one of those arguments in favor of the double blade. It might come as a surprise because I am also a single blader for life - at least in a canoe. I took as gospel the old adage "half the paddle, twice the paddler" until I took my sea kayak out into big ocean swells - waves going one way, wind blowing the other. Scared the crap out of me. Even with the double blade it was all I could do to keep the boat upright and go close to the direction that I needed to. I have great respect for anyone that can paddle in those or any challenging conditions with a double blade and make it look easy.

As always, what you do and often based on the boat you paddle. If you have a canoe set up as a pack boat to be paddled with a double blade then go for it. I'm not convinced that a tripping boat is the right boat for a double blade - too wide, too high and too much tradition on paddling it with a single blade. But people do it - like my friend who paddled the Allagash from the stern of a tandem boat with a double blade. He is primarily a kayaker (whitewater and and sea kayak) who gets in a canoe for wilderness trips. He is not really interested in working on his single blade technique - just getting his gear to the campsite.

To each his/her own.
 
I want to emphasize again that, in my opinion, there is nothing bad, wrong, immoral, unethical, or foolish in using or just preferring a double blade in a canoe for some or all purposes. It's just that I take the position that the single blade is preferable, probably because I actually define "canoeing" as controlling a canoe with a single blade (as does the USCA).

Hopefully without offense, I'd like to use two quotations from above to demonstrate why I claim that the availability of a double blade (rhetorically, crack cocaine) either deadens the motivation to continue developing single blade skills or preemtively kills off any single blade motivation at the outset.

my most efficient solo is a Phoenix, and it doesn't sit-and-switch very well because it's not that efficient of a boat - it's not meant to go straight. So if I want to make miles on deep flatwater I will often use a double to get up a lake

I will concede that most people, regardless of skill level, can probably propel a canoe a bit faster with a double blade than a single blade, at least for some period of time. But I can interpret the quoted explanation as a rationalization that deadens the motivation to continue developing single blade skills—i.e, I need to use a double blade because my canoe is too turny to use a single blade for long distances.

Well, all canoes want to turn away from the single blade forward stroke. That's the very reason to learn the the various and blendable single blade correction strokes in the first place. But what about canoes that are very turny? It doesn't matter; they all can be driven straight and controlled with practiced single blade technique.

The maximally turnable canoes are highly rockered whitewater canoes, and NO skilled whitewater canoeist uses a double blade. They go straight with goon strokes or J strokes or cross-forward strokes, depending on the situation. In hard whitewater in the turniest canoes, where constant second-to-second decisions are required, at penalty of risking one's canoe or even life, NO proficient whitewater canoeist (rarae aves aside) uses a double blade.

Therefore, a claim that a double blade is needed to chew up miles in a turnier-than-average touring canoe is, to me, mainly a rationalization, a rationalization that deadens the motivation to improve, use and become comfortable with available single blade skills.

like my friend who paddled the Allagash from the stern of a tandem boat with a double blade. He is primarily a kayaker (whitewater and and sea kayak) who gets in a canoe for wilderness trips. He is not really interested in working on his single blade technique - just getting his gear to the campsite.

Here is a clear example of how the availabiliy of the double blade preemptively kills off any initial motivation to learn single blade skills, in this case with kayaker who is quite happy to continue using his familiar double blade. The much worse case is that the same thing happens with far too many beginning canoeists. They just grab a double blade at the outset, the addiction sets in, and that's the end of it—farewell single blade; I hardly knew ye.

The extrapolation of all this is that we have a population of canoeists, at all ages and skill levels, who could significantly improve their single blade skill arsenal, even though they may be content and mostly effective with what they are doing. Worse, the population of single blading canoeists is declining, and the availability of both formal and informal single blade trainers is declining along with it.

It all bothers me. So, I choose to continue to be an advocate for the single blade, notwithstanding the truth of my first sentence in this post.
 
No, Tsuga, I'm not joking; I'm quite serious. Allow me to be blunt: Anyone (physically able) who "elects" to use a double blade for any purpose in a canoe is doing so because they have lost their motivation to learn and practice doing it with a single blade, which most assuredly can be done. Hundreds of thousands of single bladers do it, whatever it is, as witnessed by the fact that no double blade ever enters their hulls.

It is interesting how in this paragraph you literally judge and condemn the actions of an entire group of paddlers, even after most of that group has just posted the idea that each type has a place in various paddling conditions. I didn't read a single users account saying that their use of a double blade eliminated the use of a single blade. To be blunt, I am calling BS on this statement ... doubles in canoes are literally part of the canoe history, regardless of your prejudice.

Having said that, I don't really care what people use to propel their watercraft and have absolutely no animus or hostility towards any sort of paddle.

You obviously do care, given the derogatory references to crack/cocaine (last post) and the blatant judgement of a whole group of paddlers, in the first paragraph here.

It's simply that one of my niches or "things" on the internet and real life is being a proponent and teacher of single blade technique. Some folks' "things" on this site are, for example, being proponents of wooden canoes, traditional gear, lightweight boats and gear, freestyle technique, lake to lake portage tripping, poling, barren lands river tripping, whitewater, racing, double blading, etc. I believe I have a solid theoretical and practical understanding of canoe physics, paddle hydrodynamics, and boat control with a single blade in flat and white water. Thus, those are some of the things on which I focus when trying to teach, preach and pass on my experience.

I get the dedication to single blade use, the investment of time and energy , however, casting aspersions and denigrating other ideas isn't the best way to preach the gospel.

Of course I could make arguments in favor of double blades, but I'll leave that to others whose "thing" that is. Liberal education is offering and listening to civil arguments on all sides of all issues. That's what I hope threads like this, and this site as a whole, can offer. No joke.

You literally posted using a double blade is akin to using drugs, that it will be the downfall of your single blade skills and be the ruination of your chances in the church of the single blade canoe ... you literally ignored the users who shared their experiences suggesting a place for both. Not sure this qualifies as civil exchange ... that usually requires folks to actually respect and listen to what is offered.
 
Glenn, you.make fair points but I sense most paddlers do not spend enough time in their boats to hone the single blade. Easier and more enjoyable to grab the double and head across the water. Maybe like getting hooked on coffee, it takes time to get past the taste.
 
Glenn, you.make fair points but I sense most paddlers do not spend enough time in their boats to hone the single blade.

I can't help but to compare that thought to most people who walk on city streets or even on paths in the woods and see others go into the backcountry but they do not for whatever reason desire to spend time with a backpack on to bother camping, setting up a tent, or learning to build a campfire. Better to spend the night in a hotel room, right? Why do some of us do those kinds of things that may necessitate work at a practiced skill of some kind? Why do wood crafters build beautiful cabinets and furniture when a cardboard box would do? Why are there any mountain climbers or sky divers, or airplane pilots? Why do Olympic hopefuls and other athletes spend hours and hours of time every day in training for years before an event? Why are there single blade canoe paddlers when there are far easier methods of boat propulsion that take little effort to master? Why are there 90 mile canoe racers in the Adirondacks, or 1000 mile race paddlers on the Yukon River with all the hard work training it takes to acquire some pride in ability and success?
 
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...I sense most paddlers do not spend enough time in their boats to hone the single blade.
Time in the canoe is a big part of it but perhaps even more so, it takes good instruction. Whether it's informal instruction from fellow canoeists or formal instruction from certified instructors, knowing how to properly/efficiently use a single blade lets us properly practice when we're out on the water. I haven't incorporated a double blade paddle for canoeing and probably won't, but I acknowledge the advantages of a double blade for those who do.
 
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Allow me to be blunt: Anyone (physically able) who "elects" to use a double blade for any purpose in a canoe is doing so because they have lost their motivation to learn and practice doing it with a single blade
Therefore, a claim that a double blade is needed to chew up miles in a turnier-than-average touring canoe is, to me, mainly a rationalization, a rationalization that deadens the motivation to improve, use and become comfortable with available single blade skills.


If someone is learning to ride a motorcycle, and rides that motorcycle frequently for 10 months a year, but opts to drive to the grocery store in a car during a snowstorm because it's convenient in that moment, have they given up learning to ride? Has someone who's not comfortable on a bicycle in city traffic, but drives to a rail trail with the bike on the roof so they can practice in better circumstances, deadened their motivation to learn?

@Glenn MacGrady you omitted the part of my post, immediately after the part you quoted, where I said I switch back to a single blade. You are welcome to your opinions, and you are welcome to a stance on single blades. If you want to assert a generalization that double blades lessen the likelihood of skills development, that's certainly a valid assertion (though one I disagree with; see below). But calling me out to tell me that I'm dulling my motivation to learn like a cocaine addict does not feel like civil debate, no matter how many times you say you're engaging in a civil manner and don't mean to offend.

I've been practicing single blade techniques for years, but single-digit years not decades. I've attended canoe symposia for the last three years and intend to attend another in 2025 to learn and improve my skills. And I've been steadily reducing the proportion of time I use a double. I no longer take a double on day paddles (by far the majority of my hours in a canoe). I can make my Phoenix or even my Souhegan go straight with a single blade for as long as I want, and I practice doing so with every outing. But, acknowledging that I'm currently faster and more efficient with a double in such boats, I take one tripping. That doesn't mean I don't practice with a single blade while tripping. Sometimes I want to race to claim a campsite on a busy weekend so I can then have my mind fully on single-blade technique practice once camp is set up. Sometimes in the middle of my third straight day of paddling on a trip, it's nice to work different muscles and joints in different ways, or take a break from practicing single-blade, since pausing and returning later to a stroke can be key to improvement of technique. I've read that in practicing something repetitive, there's an optimal number of repetitions for a single session, after which the mind and muscles tire and performance actually declines again, sometimes reinforcing bad habits instead of good ones. Breaks are good for skills development. Carrying a double on a trip lets me take breaks on skills development and keep moving.

Different folks have different parameters of time, gear, and ways of learning. I know folks who failed to get a canoe to go straight with a single-blade their first time out, so they switched to kayaking rec boats, or worse, didn't bother paddling again at all. If someone learns to love canoeing with a double-blade, I say 'great'. There's lots to enjoy without a focus on single-blade technique. Some, like me, will keep growing and start the long journey of single-blade technique development. I've taught at least two people how to do a sculling draw and a bow rudder, with me in a canoe with a single-blade and them in a kayak. Will they go on to take up a life of studying single-blade techniques? I don't know, but I'm guessing the odds are better compared to someone simply shaking a single blade at them and telling them they're dulling their motivation to learn like a coke addict by merely picking up a double.

Not everyone will follow the same learning trajectory. It doesn't mean they're not trying to learn.

I also fully support those who just want to canoe with a double-blade, whatever their motivation. In the case of the OP, if a double-bladed paddle means @Blukanu can make the most of a trip to BWCA with their current skills, that doesn't preclude them from building more skills later, and though anyone is welcome to disagree civilly, I don't think anyone should be denigrated for such thinking. I say, if you want to, go for the double.
 
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