The New Swift/DY Redesign of the Dragonfly

In collaboration with the ubiquitous and eternal David Yost and Jeremy Vore of Redleaf Designs, Swift has redesigned the legendary, if rare, 1982 Curtis Dragonfly into a new canoe, called the Dragonfly 15. I'll explain how the specs have been changed and then embed Swift's introduction video.

Here are the original Dragonfly specs from the 1986 Curtis Canoe catalog:



Here are the Swift specs of the new Dragonfly 15:


As you can see, the changes (or not) from old to new are:

- length increased from 14.5' to 15'
- width at gunwales increased from 24.5" to 27"
- maximum width increased from 28.5" to 30"
- width at 4" waterline increased from 26" to 28"
- bow height increased from 17" to 21"
- stern height increased from 15.5" to 18.5"
- center depth unchanged at 14"
- bow rocker (from other sources) unchanged at 2.5"
- stern rocker (from other sources) decreased from 2.5" to 2"
- the Swift spec page also says the Dragonfly 15 is "a bit fuller in the ends above the waterline"

Based just on these specs, I'd summarize that the essence of this redesign has changed the Dragonfly from a racing canoe into a load carrying canoe. The D15 is likely slower than the original and less turny (unless a light paddler/load can be heeled and buoyed up on the increased chine volume to break the asymmetrically rockered stern free). On the other hand, the D15 can clearly carry much heavier loads, should be drier in heavy hydraulics and while surfing, and will likely be more affected by wind.

Esquif and swift need to hook up. I’d buy it if it were made in t-formex.

I just watched their video. Looks like a run at the SRT and company. I hope they bring one to Canoecopia this year.

I found it interesting that Bill said he is getting back into whitewater. That could lead to some revision in Swift's layup doctrine.

Interesting, looking a lot like J Winter's Raven, with a little less rocker. I'd probably like it, and if I my kidneys were still good enough to sell, I'd probably be able to buy one.

Tryin' said:

I found it interesting that Bill said he is getting back into whitewater. That could lead to some revision in Swift's layup doctrine.

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Are none of Swift's layers considered whitewater capable?

Looks interesting. Didn't watch the video yet, but specs make me think it will be a great boat for big river trips. I like the length and added buoyancy. I would wish for a little less depth in the stems though. Intended use is probably not where I am likely to be going though.

I thought of you, Steve, and our conversations on boat specs and poling. Wide enough to pole?

In my experience Swift is pretty cagey about the durability of their lay-ups. Last year I almost ordered a Wildfire and when I told them I wanted same durability as the old Bell black/gold lay-up which was rated for light whitewater and I can drag a fully loaded (including me) boat over partially sunken trees they recommended their strongest/heaviest lay-up but would not commit to it's capability. I told them I have 2 Swift solos (one Kevlar fusion and one expedition kevlar) that both have dents in their foam cores...and unlike Hemlock boats or Northstar IXP all Swift lay-ups use foam cores.

New dragonfly looks like a mellow boat. If I needed a downstream boat for fast current where you might bump rocks I'd do an IXP Phoenix.

Tsuga8 said:

Are none of Swift's layers considered whitewater capable?

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I must first say that one man's capable is another's delicate. But note that all of their layups require a full size foam football for rigidity. Swift does not have a layup that uses only a fabric/resin matrix. Some paddlers believe that relying on foam for stiffness unnecessarily compromises durability, in that when foam fractures, the structural soundness of the layup is diminished.

Northstar, Nova Craft, Millbrook, and others use full fabric layups for the boats they tout as whitewater capable or "most durable". Swift, like Wenonah, is generally considered by paddlers to be a "lakes and rivers" manufacturer, with some "rivers and lakes" models in the lineup. "Rivers and whitewater" discussions do not usually include Swift as a recommendation.

I see I've asked a question with vocabulary that's vague in loaded ways. "Whitewater capable" might mean downriver trips with a couple Class II rapids, or might mean playboating, or pushing the envelope in Class IV water.

For me personally, what gumpus described matches the conditions I tend to get myself into:

gumpus said:

same durability as the old Bell black/gold lay-up which was rated for light whitewater and I can drag a fully loaded (including me) boat over partially sunken trees

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I have now dragged my NS blacklite over a couple logs, gravel shoals, and beaver dams, usually with me NOT in it unless I get distracted and miss a submerged rock or log in flatwater. However, despite reassurances from others, I still can't bring myself to use the blacklite or my white gold Bell on the rocky swiftwater creeks I pole on. There might be Class I at most, but mostly it's bumping gently and scraping over rocks as I practice poling. I suppose I look for more abrasion resistance than impact resistance. I'm also not tripping in places where catastrophic boat failure means having to phone a float plane. Anyhoo, I eye up Swifts occasionally but the high price combined with my bony creek and stumpy swamp tendencies always scares me away.

Tsuga8 said:

I thought of you, Steve, and our conversations on boat specs and poling. Wide enough to pole?

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Hard to say with this Dragonfly. Definitely no with the original. This one looks possible on paper, but if the bottom is as round as I've seen Dragonfly 1 described, probably not. I can pole my Solitude on pretty calm water, and other than the rocker, it's similar on paper. The solitude's bottom has pretty good arch to it - but Dragonfly 2?

Depends on the construction of the hull bottom too. I'm leery of the idea of doing much poling with a foam core hull. OTOH, if the layup was done like my Millbrook I wouldn't worry about it at all.

I presume Millbrook layups are among the toughest of the lighweight composites, given they seem to specifically make whitewater boats. I wish they still made something a little more trip-ready in those layups....like the Coho or similar. I supposed IXP fits the bill as well? Tuffstuff and T-Formex (and Royalex) seem like the next step up in terms of weight per length, though obviously there's gain in durability.

How do the Swift lineups compare to Hemlock's? I understand there's the foamcore vs none factor, but have folks actually run Hemlocks down bony creeks? I presume the SRT is built to hold up at least? Presumably the new Swift Dragonfly would to, if they're going for a river-ready tripper?

Tsuga8 said:

have folks actually run Hemlocks down bony creeks? I presume the SRT is built to hold up at least?

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The SRT has definitely been run in whitewater and hit rocks, by me and a lot of other paddlers. The laminate technologies for the SRT are exactly the same as for all other Hemlock canoe models. The Premium+ layup is S glass + Kevlar + woven carbon/Kevlar cofab. My old SRT is simply S glass + Kevlar, which is the same as a traditional whitewater layup. Dave didn't use the cofab material when my SRT was built.

That doesn't mean all Hemlock Premium+ layup canoes are good whitewater boats. Hull shape makes a big difference, the Hemlock Shaman having been designed specifically as a whitewater play boat. Nor should any hull be run down really bony creeks unless you want to risk severe abrasion, pins and even wraps.

Glenn MacGrady said:

Nor should any hull be run down really bony creeks unless you want to risk severe abrasion, pins and even wraps.

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Sometimes, the creek closest to you is just bony a lot of the time. With used boats bought at reasonable prices, the wear and tear is worth it to me to be on the water for more of the season. That said, I do try not to abuse them, but to get better, one has to do some scraping and bumping from time to time.

Tsuga8 said:

With used boats bought at reasonable prices, the wear and tear is worth it to me to be on the water for more of the season.

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I agree for old beater boats, especially plastic ones. In this thread, however, we're talking about $4,000+ USD investments. I'm not putting one of those, even if I had one, on bony waters. Elon Musk may think differently, of course.

1000% agree, Glenn. A Swift isn't in my future unless I come across a used one at a very good price. And I baby my Phoenix as much as possible while still using it to trip with.

I bought my IXP Phoenix specifically to run the shallow, rocky creeks that make up the bulk of the water in my neck of the woods. It's not a precious work of art - it's just a canoe. I certainly don't have Elon Musk money but I buy my stuff to use. If it gets scraped up or bent I'll repair it. If Swift had something in their lineup that I thought was a better fit to my mission profile than the Phoenix I'd have bought it and happily bounced and scraped it down my local river while smiling and reeling in smallmouth. And I'll be smiling even more as I load it on the car knowing I'm not dead lifting a plastic boat.

Punkinhead said:

It's not a precious work of art - it's just a canoe.

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Punkinhead said:

And I'll be smiling even more as I load it on the car knowing I'm not dead lifting a plastic boat.

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Those have always been my philosophies. That said, with my composite non-whitewater boats I'm as careful as reasonably possible to wetfoot entries and to avoid abrasive obstacles. Those are not hard things to do, and obstacle avoidance is part of the skill-fun of single stick boat control.

After watching the video in the other thread, I'd have to say it's unlikely that I would consider it a likely candidate for poling (not that poling ability is a high priority for my solo canoes). I'm sure I'd like it a lot.

Glenn MacGrady said:

Those have always been my philosophies. That said, with my composite non-whitewater boats I'm as careful as reasonably possible to wetfoot entries and to avoid abrasive obstacles. Those are not hard things to do, and obstacle avoidance is part of the skill-fun of single stick boat control.

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Agreed. I hope I didn't imply that I'm callous with how I treat my things. Running shallow, rocky rivers and creeks is a fact of life where I live and paddle. I don't aim for rocks or shallow spots, but scraped and dings are inevitable. I really wish Swift made something appropriate in both design and layup for my type of paddling because when you compare Northstar and Swift side by side the difference in craftsmanship is pretty stark and I appreciate good workmanship.