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RockSTAR or SRT?

NikonF5user

NikonF5user

Joined
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Columbia, MD
So I have an interesting internal debate going on. I have always LOVED the SRT - and on my Yukon trip this past year I realized how badly I want and can use a good river-tripping solo. Of course the SRT immediately entered my mind, but once I got home I had an opportunity to grab a brand new RockSTAR from Redfeather built out of basalt innegra and have come to like it quite a bit. I thought it would be rather barge-ish, but the RockSTAR has turned out to be more sprightly than I had predicted. Essentially more like the SRT than I had thought it would be before I paddled it a few times.

I should be perfectly satisfied, but recently I did something stupid and over-flexed the bow trying to ride up on an accessible launch. I was curious how the launch worked and when the boat was part-way up, the hull flexed to the point where the weight collapsed the sides of the hull and cracked the clearcoat. I am a embarrassed that I did something so stupid but also upset that the boat flexed that much when on the rollers of the launch. I got the boat specifically to use on river trips, and one has to imagine that hitting rocks with a potentially compromised hull could be an issue.

Right now there is an older SRT available (2003); my guess is that the SRT will be more robust than the RockSTAR, but perhaps I am thinking incorrectly - the flex of the innegra may be beneficial in rapids going over rocks (and I suppose that cracking the gel coat doesn't necessarily mean reducing the puncture strength of the innegra). Would love to hear experiences anyone may have with these two designs (both with respect to the models and also the construction), and also with the build of earlier SRTs with respect to river trips (I am jonesing to do the Missinaibi in particular, and also the Allagash).

Any thoughts are appreciated!
 
NikonF5user said:
So I have an interesting internal debate going on. I have always LOVED the SRT - and on my Yukon trip this past year I realized how badly I want and can use a good river-tripping solo. Of course the SRT immediately entered my mind, but once I got home I had an opportunity to grab a brand new RockSTAR from Redfeather built out of basalt innegra and have come to like it quite a bit. I thought it would be rather barge-ish, but the RockSTAR has turned out to be more sprightly than I had predicted. Essentially more like the SRT than I had thought it would be before I paddled it a few times.

I should be perfectly satisfied, but recently I did something stupid and over-flexed the bow trying to ride up on an accessible launch. I was curious how the launch worked and when the boat was part-way up, the hull flexed to the point where the weight collapsed the sides of the hull and cracked the clearcoat. I am a embarrassed that I did something so stupid but also upset that the boat flexed that much when on the rollers of the launch. I got the boat specifically to use on river trips, and one has to imagine that hitting rocks with a potentially compromised hull could be an issue.

Right now there is an older SRT available (2003); my guess is that the SRT will be more robust than the RockSTAR, but perhaps I am thinking incorrectly - the flex of the innegra may be beneficial in rapids going over rocks (and I suppose that cracking the gel coat doesn't necessarily mean reducing the puncture strength of the innegra). Would love to hear experiences anyone may have with these two designs (both with respect to the models and also the construction), and also with the build of earlier SRTs with respect to river trips (I am jonesing to do the Missinaibi in particular, and also the Allagash).

Any thoughts are appreciated!
Click to expand...
Hello, I have a Redfeather Rockstar, factory blew Carbon Fiber, for sale for $2450 and a soon to be listed 2023 SRT for $2825 if you would be interested in either. I would like to look at your current Rockstar too. Thanks Dustin
 
NoelCanoeDad said:
Hello, I have a Redfeather Rockstar, factory blew Carbon Fiber, for sale for $2450 and a soon to be listed 2023 SRT for $2825 if you would be interested in either. I would like to look at your current Rockstar too. Thanks Dustin
Click to expand...
I will try to get it out there for you to look at, that would be awesome. Unfortunately I am rather booked on weekends for a while; between Christmas Bird Counts and guiding I do not have a singled weekend free until February! I actually wanted to test paddle a Yellowstone Solo as it is - I've never paddled one (but I feverishly love WildFIRE), curious as to what they're like. With respect to the RockSTAR, my Redfeather Merlin is carbon and I absolutely love it - cannot see myself ever parting with it. But the Rockstar is "Redfeather Red", which I was hoping is more robust for class II rapids as the outer layer is basalt innegra. The flex and subsequent gel damage was unexpected and has me questioning the rigidity of the layup for the intended use.

Perhaps Redfeather should consider adding a longitudinal mat between the bow and the floor mat (which I think Swift is doing with the WildFIRE). It also may be the case that I am overreacting - I have always been of the mindset that flex is a good thing when running over rocks, but when the fabric creased on the launch I got nervous that this is too much flex and may increase the likelihood of puncture...
 
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NikonF5user said:
So I have an interesting internal debate going on. I have always LOVED the SRT - and on my Yukon trip this past year I realized how badly I want and can use a good river-tripping solo. Of course the SRT immediately entered my mind, but once I got home I had an opportunity to grab a brand new RockSTAR from Redfeather built out of basalt innegra and have come to like it quite a bit. I thought it would be rather barge-ish, but the RockSTAR has turned out to be more sprightly than I had predicted. Essentially more like the SRT than I had thought it would be before I paddled it a few times.

I should be perfectly satisfied, but recently I did something stupid and over-flexed the bow trying to ride up on an accessible launch. I was curious how the launch worked and when the boat was part-way up, the hull flexed to the point where the weight collapsed the sides of the hull and cracked the clearcoat. I am a embarrassed that I did something so stupid but also upset that the boat flexed that much when on the rollers of the launch. I got the boat specifically to use on river trips, and one has to imagine that hitting rocks with a potentially compromised hull could be an issue.

Right now there is an older SRT available (2003); my guess is that the SRT will be more robust than the RockSTAR, but perhaps I am thinking incorrectly - the flex of the innegra may be beneficial in rapids going over rocks (and I suppose that cracking the gel coat doesn't necessarily mean reducing the puncture strength of the innegra). Would love to hear experiences anyone may have with these two designs (both with respect to the models and also the construction), and also with the build of earlier SRTs with respect to river trips (I am jonesing to do the Missinaibi in particular, and also the Allagash).

Any thoughts are appreciated!
Click to expand...
Depending on water levels, you may want a flat-ish bottom boat for the Allagash. There are long sections of shallow water that are friendlier to flat bottom boats, especially if poling.

I have two SRTs (bought the second one when it looked like Hemlock might shut its doors) and really like them, but wouldn’t consider either boat for the Allagash.
 
Art D said:
Depending on water levels, you may want a flat-ish bottom boat for the Allagash. There are long sections of shallow water that are friendlier to flat bottom boats, especially if poling.

I have two SRTs (bought the second one when it looked like Hemlock might shut its doors) and really like them, but wouldn’t consider either boat for the Allagash.
Click to expand...
There is definitely something to be said for Royalex or T-Formex on rocky rivers to be sure. I have a Camper and a Penobscot; if I do the Allagash with a partner I'll definitely take one of them. But the SRT and RockSTAR just seem like such good river trippers - seems a shame not to use them up there. But there's no question they'll leave with grooves...
 
I have one of Dave Curtis's early build SRTs (1999) with integral skid plates, and he admitted he sort of overbuilt them in the early days, for whitewater purposes, with S glass and Kevlar at about 42 lbs. Absolutely nothing has ever flexed my hull. I wouldn't hesitate to take it on any lake or river up to class 3, including the Allagash. But, of course, one must be skilled enough to paddle it.

I've never paddled a Rockstar and have no personal experience with basalt/innegra composite fabric. The Rockstar no longer shows up on the Redfeather website as a current model. But I can tell from the specs of the two canoes that the SRT is narrower in all beam dimensions, is deeper, and has a higher length/width ratio (6.7 vs. 6.3). Therefore, I assume the SRT would be the more tender and faster canoe.

Too bad Waterdog has passed. He had both a Rockstar and SRT, among other canoes. You can find posts from him about both canoes using our search function.
 
Glenn MacGrady said:
Too bad Waterdog has passed. He had both a Rockstar and SRT, among other canoes. You can find posts from him about both canoes using our search function.
Click to expand...
I've read quite a bit about both, but I have not seen any head-to-head comparisons. I've also paddled both, but never at the same time. I'll say one thing, I very much want to arrange a head-to-head with SRT, the RockSTAR, and the new D-fly 15!
 
I always thought the Dragonfly was a bit narrow for me as a PPP (portly person paddler) at 250 and 6’, and a bit more of a round bottom than was comfortable for me. The new 15’ looks awesome at 2” wider and 14” deep. Having paddled innumerable DY hulls over my lifetime I would actually buy the boat without a test paddle. He simply designs fabulous hulls.
 
NikonF5user said:
I very much want to arrange a head-to-head with SRT, the RockSTAR, and the new D-fly 15!
Click to expand...

Pretty remote that all three canoes would be at the same place at the same time. Possibly at WPASCR.

The new Swift Dragonfly is that in name only. It's not the original spec, which was made specifically for Harold Deal to race in whitewater combined class events, and hence is a completely different (and softened) boat. Harold, who was the most expert all-around canoeist I've ever known, was definitive that he preferred the the SRT over the original Dragonfly as a tripping canoe. That's why he designed it.
 
Glenn MacGrady said:
Pretty remote that all three canoes would be at the same place at the same time. Possibly at WPASCR.

The new Swift Dragonfly is that in name only. It's not the original spec, which was made specifically for Harold Deal to race in whitewater combined class events, and hence is a completely different (and softened) boat. Harold, who was the most expert all-around canoeist I've ever known, was definitive that he preferred the the SRT over the original Dragonfly as a tripping canoe. That's why he designed it.
Click to expand...
I am surprised they chose that name for the reasons you mention. The D-fly 15 specs seem far more aligned with the SRT, essentially a DY design to meet the same market as the SRT...
 
Glenn MacGrady said:
The new Swift Dragonfly is that in name only. It's not the original spec, which was made specifically for Harold Deal to race in whitewater combined class events, and hence is a completely different (and softened) boat.
Click to expand...

NikonF5user said:
I am surprised they chose that name for the reasons you mention. The D-fly 15 specs seem far more aligned with the SRT, essentially a DY design to meet the same market as the SRT...
Click to expand...

I've done an in-depth comparison of the specs between the original Curtis Curtis Dragonfly and the new Swift Dragonfly 15, including Swift's new introduction video, in the following thread:

The New Swift/DY Redesign of the Dragonfly

In collaboration with the ubiquitous and eternal David Yost and Jeremy Vore of Redleaf Designs, Swift has redesigned the legendary, if rare, 1982 Curtis Dragonfly into a new canoe, called the Dragonfly 15. I'll explain how the specs have been changed and then embed Swift's introduction video...
www.canoetripping.net
 
NikonF5user said:
I've read quite a bit about both, but I have not seen any head-to-head comparisons. I've also paddled both, but never at the same time. I'll say one thing, I very much want to arrange a head-to-head with SRT, the RockSTAR, and the new D-fly 15!
Click to expand...
I'd throw the Phoenix into the mix. Having owned both SRT and Phoenix my take is that their performance envelopes are very similar although they feel different. SRT has the benefit of being narrow in the center so the paddler can lock their knees in the chines better than most solos; Phoenix feels more normal with significantly more primary stability. Both "push water" if you try to drive them hard on flat water. Both have massive secondary stability.
 
gumpus said:
I'd throw the Phoenix into the mix. Having owned both SRT and Phoenix my take is that their performance envelopes are very similar although they feel different. SRT has the benefit of being narrow in the center so the paddler can lock their knees in the chines better than most solos; Phoenix feels more normal with significantly more primary stability. Both "push water" if you try to drive them hard on flat water. Both have massive secondary stability.
Click to expand...
Better add the Caribou S on there too!
 
Comparing the new Swift Dragonfly 15 specs vs. the Hemlock SRT specs shows:

Length: both 15'
Gunwale width: 27" vs. 26.5"
Maximum width: 30" vs. 28.5"
4" waterline width: 28" vs. 26"
Bow height: 21" vs. 20"
Stern height: both 18.5"
Center depth: 14" vs. 14.5"
Bow rocker: both 2.5"
Stern rocker: 2" vs. 1.5"

Based on these specs, my experience in the SRT, and watching Jeremy Vore paddle the Dragonfly 15 in Swift's video, I'd say the SRT is likely faster and allows a more vertical stroke closer to the keel line, but has less initial stability and doesn't turn quite as easily as the Dragonfly 15. The chine-to-chine knee spread will be narrower in the SRT, which means comfort and hull control in that respect may depend on one's height and leg length.

My visual observation is that the SRT has a fuller bow and a more pinched (skeg-like) stern than the Dragonfly 15, making it potentially a little better in buoying over waves and tracking with less needed paddle control, which is the trade-off for being less turny. Windage and carrying capacity are likely similar.
 
gumpus said:
I'd throw the Phoenix into the mix. Having owned both SRT and Phoenix my take is that their performance envelopes are very similar although they feel different. SRT has the benefit of being narrow in the center so the paddler can lock their knees in the chines better than most solos; Phoenix feels more normal with significantly more primary stability. Both "push water" if you try to drive them hard on flat water. Both have massive secondary stability.
Click to expand...
I really want to love the Phoenix more than I do. The WildFIRE is my number one absolute favorite canoe, but for some reason my short stint in the Phoenix was less than inspiring. But I do need to give it a truly dedicated shot. It just seemed so less willing to turn than does the WildFIRE...
 
NikonF5user said:
I really want to love the Phoenix more than I do. The WildFIRE is my number one absolute favorite canoe, but for some reason my short stint in the Phoenix was less than inspiring. But I do need to give it a truly dedicated shot. It just seemed so less willing to turn than does the WildFIRE...
Click to expand...

You're making me think I was lucky to find a Wildfire first.
 
Steve in Idaho said:
You're making me think I was lucky to find a Wildfire first.
Click to expand...
The WildFIRE is GREAT - just not sure it's quite up for the same mission as the SRT and RockSTAR. The volume isn't dissimilar to the Merlin which I overloaded for a month-long trip down the Yukon (although I admittedly over packed a bit without portages). Both the SRT and RockSTAR will handle bigger water and far more a load than will the WildFIRE. A StarFIRE would, but that's a bit of a unicorn I think....
 
I'm following this thread closely as an SRT admirer, who paddles an RX Wildfire that I love. With a tripping load, I tend to swamp my RX Wildfire in class II+ drops, with water coming in at the bow. Admittedly, I'm probably just asking too much of this particular boat design in that context (or maybe I just need to paddle better), but I've always wondered how a boat like the SRT would fare with it's higher forward profile. I don't mind a spray deck, and outfitting one will alleviate my issue, but as I bail bilge water I find myself day-dreaming about an SRT.

@NikonF5user If you ever find yourself in the neighborhood, you're welcome to take mine for a spin.
 
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Pseudonym said:
I'm following this thread closely as an SRT admirer, who paddles an RX Wildfire that I love. With a tripping load, I tend to swamp my RX Wildfire in class II+ drops, with water coming in at the bow. Admittedly, I'm probably just asking too much of this particular boat design in that context (or maybe I just need to paddle better), but I've always wondered how a boat like the SRT would fare with it's higher forward profile. I don't mind a spray deck, and outfitting one will alleviate my issue, but as I bail bilge water I find myself day-dreaming about an SRT.

@NikonF5user If you ever find yourself in the neighborhood, you're welcome to take mine for a spin.
Click to expand...
Oh I'll totally take you up on that if I'm up that way! The RX WildFIRE is a bit different than the composite version I love so much, but is probably perfect for a rocky river. They're both a bit shallow for class 3 I think however - the SRT, RockSTAR, and D-fly 15 will undoubtedly give a much dryer ride in those rapids!
 
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