-
Happy Sacagawea Day! 🧭🧑🏽🍼🪶🏞
"Paddle out of Peril" video with Omer Stringer
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
- Start date
@Ralph has found the entire video. Thanks.
Omer Stringer says at 10:20 of the video that "even though I weigh but 130 pounds, any canoe up to 90 pounds is very easily rolled onto my shoulders" for portaging. Take that, you wimpy modern Americans!
Omer Stringer says at 10:20 of the video that "even though I weigh but 130 pounds, any canoe up to 90 pounds is very easily rolled onto my shoulders" for portaging. Take that, you wimpy modern Americans!
At 19:20 of the video, Stringer demonstrates a rescue technique for an injured/unconscious swimmer that I've never seen or thought of. He deliberately swamps his own canoe, paddling one-armed, to float the injured swimmer into it. Of course, he then has to paddle the swamped canoe to shore somehow.
Glenn, not that I'm a good searcher but I did find the full length version at:
It's interesting that I use the same canoe over canoe technique that he used. I found that many people have trouble getting back into a canoe by themselves so I do what Omer did, I get the swamped canoe part way over my canoe then I lean over the upside down swamped canoe and help the person into the boat. I find it to be extremely stable and it really allows me to help heavier and/or less fit people get into the canoe. I believe that my way is not the way that is currently being taught but I find it more effective than other methods I have tried.
It's interesting that I use the same canoe over canoe technique that he used. I found that many people have trouble getting back into a canoe by themselves so I do what Omer did, I get the swamped canoe part way over my canoe then I lean over the upside down swamped canoe and help the person into the boat. I find it to be extremely stable and it really allows me to help heavier and/or less fit people get into the canoe. I believe that my way is not the way that is currently being taught but I find it more effective than other methods I have tried.
Enjoyable video, worth watching the full length version, though I expect folks on this forum would find the info remedial. Around minute 12, there's fantastic footage of a canoe recirculating at a low-head dam - great example for teaching others about this danger.
Also interesting to note that both this video and a Bill Mason video feature a wood/canvas canoe getting destroyed in rapids. A reflection of the ubiquity of w/c canoes at the time of filming? Or just a reflection of ample filming budgets? I can't imagine anyone doing such these days. Ironically, both videos also feature composite or aluminum canoes....but a w/c smashes up against rocks a lot better on film.
Regarding swamping a canoe to rescue someone, I imagine the work-ability of that depends on your canoe's neutral buoyancy to a certain degree. I've discovered that my Wenonah Heron sits with much of the gunnels around the center underwater when swamped - only the stems stick out above the surface, and that's completely empty. With a couple people inside, I don't know that it's paddle-able at all. Maybe enough of a platform to stave off drowning and hope for a rescue, but I bet w/c canoes had a lot more buoyancy? Either way, something worth trying out and practicing!
Also interesting to note that both this video and a Bill Mason video feature a wood/canvas canoe getting destroyed in rapids. A reflection of the ubiquity of w/c canoes at the time of filming? Or just a reflection of ample filming budgets? I can't imagine anyone doing such these days. Ironically, both videos also feature composite or aluminum canoes....but a w/c smashes up against rocks a lot better on film.
Regarding swamping a canoe to rescue someone, I imagine the work-ability of that depends on your canoe's neutral buoyancy to a certain degree. I've discovered that my Wenonah Heron sits with much of the gunnels around the center underwater when swamped - only the stems stick out above the surface, and that's completely empty. With a couple people inside, I don't know that it's paddle-able at all. Maybe enough of a platform to stave off drowning and hope for a rescue, but I bet w/c canoes had a lot more buoyancy? Either way, something worth trying out and practicing!
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2024
- Messages
- 58
- Reaction score
- 51
I appreciate the video being found. I started as a recreational kayaker and have again to trip into Questico. I study before I go then look for things when I get back if I struggle with something.
Thanks for the very interesting historic and instructive link. Regarding the canoe over canoe rescue, it has long been taught as part of the curriculum for BSA high adventure guide trek leader certification training in the Adirondacks. Each student trainee has to demonstrate capability with the technique during the canoe rescue portion of their week long field training.
For conscious victims, the technique used after the swamped canoe is emptied of water, is to hold it parallel to the rescue canoe and rescuers then pull up on the gunwale such that the opposite gunwale is almost submerged. Then the victim swims to that side and begins to climb aboard as the rescuers push down hard, in effect scooping the victim onboard. Works especially well for pudgy, weak, or heavy victims who would have difficulty climbing into a fully upright canoe.
For conscious victims, the technique used after the swamped canoe is emptied of water, is to hold it parallel to the rescue canoe and rescuers then pull up on the gunwale such that the opposite gunwale is almost submerged. Then the victim swims to that side and begins to climb aboard as the rescuers push down hard, in effect scooping the victim onboard. Works especially well for pudgy, weak, or heavy victims who would have difficulty climbing into a fully upright canoe.
I’m mostly a river paddler, so rescue is pretty basic – hold on to your paddle, get in the safe swimming position until you can roll over and swim aggressively into an eddy or to shore. If you are in mild conditions you can grab your boat, maybe flip it over and try to push it to shore. If not, someone else in the group will chase it down and push it into an eddy. If you encounter a strainer, roll over and go in head first pulling yourself up on top, never go under a strainer. I’ve had four swims this year, all on whitewater and all went pretty much the same way – I got myself quickly to shore and had a short, but humbling hike down to my boat.
I did a bunch of sea kayak trips with my local club this summer, and they are very focused on safety. Most of the trips ended with self and assisted rescue practice, and I attended an incident management session where we practiced lots of different rescues in real conditions. That is where I first saw a scoop rescue and using a swamped boat as an outrigger. With its low profile, bulkheads and deck lines it is a lot easier to empty and get back in a sea kayak than a canoe. With a paddle float, I can get myself back in my sea kayak.
Getting back in a swamped canoe is a lot more challenging. I find the toughest part is just getting the water out of it. With my small solo boat I can break the seal and get it up out of the water to flip it over. With a big tandem I can’t do it alone, and it is hard to do even with two people. Then there is the added complication of the boat being loaded with gear. Once the boat is empty, it is pretty easy for two people to get back in the boat, but I can’t do it alone – I swamp the boat every time. Assisted rescues are a lot easier.
At least around here, me and my canoeist friends don’t have the same dedication to rescue practice that the sea kayakers do - we should practice more.
I did a bunch of sea kayak trips with my local club this summer, and they are very focused on safety. Most of the trips ended with self and assisted rescue practice, and I attended an incident management session where we practiced lots of different rescues in real conditions. That is where I first saw a scoop rescue and using a swamped boat as an outrigger. With its low profile, bulkheads and deck lines it is a lot easier to empty and get back in a sea kayak than a canoe. With a paddle float, I can get myself back in my sea kayak.
Getting back in a swamped canoe is a lot more challenging. I find the toughest part is just getting the water out of it. With my small solo boat I can break the seal and get it up out of the water to flip it over. With a big tandem I can’t do it alone, and it is hard to do even with two people. Then there is the added complication of the boat being loaded with gear. Once the boat is empty, it is pretty easy for two people to get back in the boat, but I can’t do it alone – I swamp the boat every time. Assisted rescues are a lot easier.
At least around here, me and my canoeist friends don’t have the same dedication to rescue practice that the sea kayakers do - we should practice more.
Our last practice session was 2020 - Riverstrider doing tandem reentries.
I have seen two strong paddlers empty and right a canoe with what is called the "Capistrano Flip", very difficult to do in deep water even for srtrong swimmers, but not too difficult if able to reach and stand on firm bottom.
I too find this a very difficult move in most solo canoes. The heavier the canoe the more difficult it is but even with lightweight (32 lbs) factory built solo canoes I can't remove all the water during the flip.
What I've found to be a massive help is extra flotation at one stem. I'm sure a float bag would work great but I don't have one. What I did with my factory canoes was to jam a paddle float between the stem and carry handle and then inflate it. This meant instead of having to lift the entire canoe from the water I only have to lift one end of it because the end with the extra flotation floats super high. This makes it easy to empty all the water during the flip.
On my home built canoes I build my bulkheads large and full height so they reach the gunwales which essentially serves the same purpose.
I can pretty easily scamper back in myself in calm water but have never tried it in real conditions. I have had a couple real world instances where I could have tried but deemed the risk/reward of attempting it to be poor and instead swam the boat to shore.
This is a video I shot quite a few years ago of me practicing on a hot day. This canoe is 50+ pounds but was easy to flip and remove water because of the large float tank that reached the gunwales. You'll see how high the stem floats.
P7260006 by Alan, on Flickr
Alan
Good demo on the video. Which leads me to my standard lecture to my BSA guide student leaders in training after they have seen an instructor demo of canoe over canoe that they each will have to later perform. I ask what would have led them to get in such a situation in the first place? As a trusted guide, did you take a chance to cross big wide open water in poor weather with young scouts who may have limited or poor paddling skills? Are you far from shore? If near shore a swim/tow may be more direct and efficient.
This also leads to the question of whether to tie gear in the canoe or not. (Maybe a topic better for a different thread.) If on flat chippy water with wind, I propose that gear not be tied in, for the ease of rescue reason. Just imagine trying to untie wet rope (that scuts would use) while swimming in wind, waves and chilly water, so that a canoe and paddlers could be rescued by the canoe over canoe. "But my pack is so heavy it would sink!", I have often heard. To which I respond by throwing my pack in the lake to show that it fully floats with only a couple of inches below the surface. After the rescue is accomplished, the floating pack and other gear (all in dry bags) may then be safely retrieved. Of course, the answer may be far different in fast moving or white water rivers. On my Yukon River race trips, everything is securely tied in, because that gear is your life along with the canoe. Stay with it and get yourself and all to shore when and where best able.
I advocate for flotation in whitewater and open water.
Bailing a swamped canoe out in bad conditions is not practical. Floatation makes it feasible to climb back in a partially flooded canoe without sinking it, which could be especially important if you are unable to scamper over the side of an empty canoe.
I also encourage practicing. Regardless of what you plan to do, practicing will ensure that it works and give you a better chance of doing it when it matters.
Bailing a swamped canoe out in bad conditions is not practical. Floatation makes it feasible to climb back in a partially flooded canoe without sinking it, which could be especially important if you are unable to scamper over the side of an empty canoe.
I also encourage practicing. Regardless of what you plan to do, practicing will ensure that it works and give you a better chance of doing it when it matters.
Amazing how you got back in the boat. I have tried and tried, but drop the gunnel into the water and swamp the boat every time. I guess I need to practice some more.
I think it would be a lot more difficult in wind and waves. I have to tilt the hull so the gunwale is nearly under water. It's key to grab the far gunwale but maybe a center seat or thwart would work too if it wasn't possible to reach the far gunwale.
Once I have a grip on the far gunwale I scooch as far out of the water as possible without dipping the gunwale. I try to get the gunwale hooked under my PFD or at least wedged against it so it won't slip and helps hold me in place.
When it's time to finally "go for it" I kick hard and try to balance the weight between my hands (one on the near gunwale and one on the far gunwale) to keep the hull from tipping over. It's kind of a delicate balance. Once the hip clears the gunwale you've got to twist and drop your butt on the floor.
I think it's key to have a nearly empty boat before trying to climb back in. When I first started practicing this I couldn't get all the water out during the flip and it was nearly impossible to get back in. The lower gunwale was much more likely to submerge in the process when partially full of water.
Alan
Interesting video. I was surprised that he paddles from a nearly centralized position and doesn't use the bow seat, in fact he never even mentions it. This was in 1979. It wasn't until 1980, in Bill Masons "Path Of The Paddle" that paddling from the bow seat was mentioned.
Does anyone know if paddling solo from the bow seat was ever mentioned in any print or videos prior to Bill Mason mentioning it? In 1966 Cavin Rutstrum mentions it in "North American Canoe Country" He recommended it in rough water, either in wind or whitewater. Other than that it can be assumed that you would paddle solo from the stern seat, as evidenced by every illustration of solo paddlers in the book.
Although I have great admiration and respect for Mason, I blame him for the aversion of paddling solo from the stern seat. He paddled almost exclusively from the bow seat. This may reflect his preference for paddling rivers.
Does anyone know if paddling solo from the bow seat was ever mentioned in any print or videos prior to Bill Mason mentioning it? In 1966 Cavin Rutstrum mentions it in "North American Canoe Country" He recommended it in rough water, either in wind or whitewater. Other than that it can be assumed that you would paddle solo from the stern seat, as evidenced by every illustration of solo paddlers in the book.
Although I have great admiration and respect for Mason, I blame him for the aversion of paddling solo from the stern seat. He paddled almost exclusively from the bow seat. This may reflect his preference for paddling rivers.
In the Bill Mason videos I recall, if he's in an empty canoe demonstrating (especially bow) strokes he sometimes scoots right up to the center thwart and kneels, native style. On quiet water he often kneels on his PFD. In whitewater, of course, he doesn't. If he has a tripping load, he arranges it so he is kneeling off the bow seat backwards, but will still scoot up to the center thwart when in strong winds or a rapid.
Bill Mason does actually mention paddling from the stern seat at 19:53 of his Solo Basics video. Otherwise he is either on the bow seat or kneeling in the center.
Glenn, I think Bill did a good job demonstrating that you sometimes need to move your position in the boat to match the conditions. I find it disappointing though, that he may have never realized all the benefits of comfort and efficiency from paddling from the stern seat and promoted them more.
I also found it surprising that Omer, who mostly paddled from a centralized position in the video, never mentioned turning the boat around to use the bow seat for more comfort. Was it Bill Mason, who just one year later promoted paddling from the bow seat the first to do so?
I'm six years into this experiment of mine of paddling tandem canoes from the stern and am more convinced now than ever that it was the way it was done in the past. I say this because it was the preferred position of the old timers that I see in the old photos and because of my experience doing it and feeling the benefits.
Eckilson, thanks for posting that link to the video, I knew that he did mention it briefly in one of his books, but it seems to have been either forgotten or ignored by his readers. It is very rare to see anyone but an uninformed beginner paddling a boat from the stern.
I also found it surprising that Omer, who mostly paddled from a centralized position in the video, never mentioned turning the boat around to use the bow seat for more comfort. Was it Bill Mason, who just one year later promoted paddling from the bow seat the first to do so?
I'm six years into this experiment of mine of paddling tandem canoes from the stern and am more convinced now than ever that it was the way it was done in the past. I say this because it was the preferred position of the old timers that I see in the old photos and because of my experience doing it and feeling the benefits.
Eckilson, thanks for posting that link to the video, I knew that he did mention it briefly in one of his books, but it seems to have been either forgotten or ignored by his readers. It is very rare to see anyone but an uninformed beginner paddling a boat from the stern.
Similar threads
