Has anyone been around the Whitney Wilderness Area this season?

I was out on Little Tupper for a few days last fall, and found that there was significant Air Force activity every morning (and one or two nights). F35's by the sound of them, and not just a couple or a few... frequent passings, for an hour or two. I lived in the northern Adk's for couple of decades, and it was not uncommon for a couple of fighters out training to blow through the valleys or passes on occasion (added dimension if I was climbing above them!), but never this volume.
I'm asking this solely for help trip planning, as I'm heading back to that area in a couple of weeks. I asked this question on the Adk. Paddler's Forum after that trip, but it morphed into some strong opinions about patriotism and freedom and our military. I never got a clear response to what was my actual question: is this common?
Thinking I may get more helpful feedback here.

@Stillwater's

Depends on the number of exercises and transport flights, but yes, the ADK region is home to a couple of major training routes. Here is a link if you wish to request more specific information. There is a little blurb about each of the air wings at the bottom of the page as well.

Yep! F35 out of vt. Quite loud and most of the town has moved out or been bought out buy uncle sam. Graet jets but very loud. Over the summer wile paddling around upper saranac lake someone asked about seeing them, the proper answer is they (or we) have spent millions, for them to be very undetectable. But if you are lucky enough to see any of it, it's can be awesome! God bless the u.s.a.

I used to spend summers near there. Nearly needed panty change when the first ones came by. The sound comes out of nowhere. They were way low, right over the river. The noise was like a freight train barreling down on you.

Tryin' said:

@Stillwater's

Depends on the number of exercises and transport flights, but yes, the ADK region is home to a couple of major training routes. Here is a link if you wish to request more specific information. There is a little blurb about each of the air wings at the bottom of the page as well.

NYS DMNA: Military Aircraft Flights Over the Adirondack Park Region

This page provides information for those concerned with airplane flights over the Adirondack Park

dmna.ny.gov

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Thank you for that link, I'll see what info they can offer. I'm aware of the base in Vermont, it's 60 miles south of me, and I know there are a couple of other bases (NY, Canada) that fly there. I'm still wondering whether anyone here, has been there, this season, and what they encountered for flight activity.

Erica said:

I used to spend summers near there. Nearly needed panty change when the first ones came by. The sound comes out of nowhere. They were way low, right over the river. The noise was like a freight train barreling down on you.

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I've run the Jarbidge River into the Bruneau River in Southwestern Idaho a couple times, and camping on it in the lower reaches we've seen fighter jets doing mock battle practice with each other. They're stationed out of Mountain Home Idaho, to the north of there. It's really desolate country, not many people living there, and signs for the bombing range areas are seen here and there. Bombers practice with sacks of flour is what I've been told, and one time driving in that's what it looked like we saw happening -- big puffs of white powder.

This never happened on the couple trips there that I've been on, but runs by guys I know have been hit by jet sonic booms. There's a long straight stretch of the Bruneau Canyon there, essentially straight-walled and over a thousand feet deep. The fighter pilot flies along the river just above the canyon rims at just under the speed of sound, drops down below the rim, and gooses the throttle, pushing the plane up through mach one. In the narrow confines of the canyon the boom is deafeningly loud. The canyon is likely only a few hundred feet wide at most through most of that area. Narrow and deep and steep. Too many people complained about the noise, so the practice of that little maneuver was banned by the powers that be (scaring the manure out of the wildlife, etc.) before any of my trips there (which were about 30 to 20+ years ago).

Ripple said:

Yep! F35 out of vt. Quite loud and most of the town has moved out or been bought out buy uncle sam. Graet jets but very loud. Over the summer wile paddling around upper saranac lake someone asked about seeing them, the proper answer is they (or we) have spent millions, for them to be very undetectable. But if you are lucky enough to see any of it, it's can be awesome! God bless the u.s.a.

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Not millions, but hundreds of billions, with the whole program, including operations and support, costing well over $1 trillion. The cost per plane is about ~$80 million.

If you work and live around Burlington, Vermont, it can be awful. The deafening roar is extremely disruptive. You can't even have a conversation for a sustained period.

When were were doing the Bog-Oz traverse several years ago, we were buzzed by a half dozen or so attack helicopers, presumably out of Fort Drum. What a disappointing intrusion into one of the great wilderness areas of the eastern U.S.

Modified Ottertail said:

When were were doing the Bog-Oz traverse several years ago, we were buzzed by a half dozen or so attack helicopers, presumably out of Fort Drum. What a disappointing intrusion into one of the great wilderness areas of the eastern U.S.

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As a former AF flier myself, I would often plan my navigation training flights over the Adirondacks from distant bases when I could, but I would be at 30K+ feet in altitude, not likely to bother anyone. But whenever on the ground I would watch with joy the F-16's then out of Syracuse, and also the A-10s sneaking between mountain and ridge saddles, always in pairs, simulating a surprise attack on tanks. FT drum has a flight and munitions operations area just to the west of the northern Adirondacks. Often on a clear day you can hear cannon fire that many mistake for distant thunder. Ahhh, the sounds and sights of freedom. What I absolutely cannot stand is the noise of is motorboats, especially the sight of jet skis on the larger lakes.

yknpdlr said:

Ahhh, the sounds and sights of freedom.

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To be pendantic, a war machine is not freedom. Rather, at its best, it represents the defense of freedom. At its worst, it represents imperialism.

The sound of freedom are the chants of a march protesting the actions of our government. The sight of freedom is a church, a synagogue, and a mosque in the same town or city. The sound of freedom is hearing neighbors speak the English, Spanish, and Chinese. The sight of freedom are children of European, African, and Asian descent playing together in the street or the playground. The sound and sight of freedom is the cry of a loon on a wild lake, the ecosystem of which has recovered from the ravages of acid rain.

blaahhhhh. The time I spent in the military and after 9 years of active duty leading to my 40 year career as a research engineer was the greatest time of my life. Same for my brothers and my son as a pilot. Sorry, but there are emotions that arise deep within my chest when I witness men and women doing their promised duty, and it makes me feel for the freedom actions that I participated in and when I witness others who put their lives on the line to defend it to this day.

I'll especially never forget the end of my two weeks in survival school training simulating conditions of Viet Nam POWs and what was to be expected into the Cold War era of POW camp when that early morning in the camp when in line we were directed to turn about face to see the American flag flying in the bright sunlight with the National Anthem playing to signal freedom at the end of our training. Now that brought an emotional tear to the eye of even the toughest hardened soul.

Ever been to Normandy and the dozens of other cemetery memorials and batttlefields throughout Europe? Apart from the emotions stirred by the honor and bigness of them, even more notable, I felt, is that virtually every one of even the smallest villages in the region has a memorial to what the Americans and other Allies did for them by securing their freedom during two World Wars. Every village has its special story. No one sprays red paint on them or tears down their history, like what is so commonly done here today in what was once the "good ole USA". The common people living there with their monuments and welcoming of my family and I have felt, proves they have quite obviously never forgotten.

Gentlemen, I grew up in the air force, my dad was a Warrant Officer in the submarine detection game. I have strong respect for all former and current military members. However, I sense this conversation might take us into areas not frequently discussed on this canoe site, mainly the political realm. People on this site have been able to put their politics aside and come together around the common love of canoeing. It is a special place, perhaps unique on the internet. I hope we can keep it that way.

I fully agree with Memaquay, and as a result am reluctantly locking this thread. Read the rules again, folks:

"The talk rules here are simple: Be civil and polite. You may disagree with a posted opinion but may not be disagreeable toward the poster. No personal attacks. No trolling. No commercial spam. No profanity, even mild. No religion. No culturally divisive subjects. Absolutely no politics."