- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,318
- Reaction score
- 1,733
Earl, you're gonna fit right in here.
-
Happy Patent for First Computer Mouse (1970)! 🖥️🖱️🐁
What are we doing wrong?
- Thread starter Earl
- Start date
Earl, you're gonna fit right in here.
Earl,
The first thing I'd recommend is to join a canoe club. Here's one in Hamilton, Ontario:
but that doesn't mean there aren't others closer or better for you. Search around and se what you can find. Ask about instruction and clinics, and if nothing else go along on club sponsored trips, and other participants along can probably help you.
Good luck and keep us informed as to how things go.
The first thing I'd recommend is to join a canoe club. Here's one in Hamilton, Ontario:
Iroquois Canoe and Outing Club Home Page
Welcome to the official website of the Iroquois Canoe and Outing Club. For those who are not familiar with the club, we are a Hamilton, Ontario based non-profit volunteer organization dedicated to the enjoyment of outdoor activities year-round.
iroquois.tripod.com
Good luck and keep us informed as to how things go.
You do kknow of course, that another name for a canoe is a "divorce boat".
One more thing that may help. If you have bench seats, then when you each paddle on the opposiste sides, as you should, make sure that each paddler is sitting with hip tight up against the paddling side of the canoe. It is a much more stable overall less tippy configuration weight wise, and makes it much easier to hold the paddle shaft with blade vertical in the water. if you have tractor (bucket) seats, it is not as easy to hold a vertical paddle power stroke, but try anyway.
Hey Earl,
Welcome to the site. There is lots of good advice here, probably more that I can follow.
You aren't doing anything wrong, it just takes time.
My main advice to new (and experienced) paddlers is to practice self-rescue. Even if it is just finding a pool or clean lake, practice dumping and getting to shore.
Have fun!
The timing of strokes shouldn't be overlooked.
Whether it's just forward strokes or it's correction strokes, your stern strokes need to be in time and complimentary to the bow strokes.
strokes that are not in time are inefficient which causes the need to exaggerate the correction stroke.
That concept is really evident when pivoting the boat. You can each apply the proper stroke with flawless form but if you are not in time with each other you are not using physics to it's fullest.
Remember, you are a tandem and not 2 independent paddlers. Work all strokes in perfect timing with each other.
Whether it's just forward strokes or it's correction strokes, your stern strokes need to be in time and complimentary to the bow strokes.
strokes that are not in time are inefficient which causes the need to exaggerate the correction stroke.
That concept is really evident when pivoting the boat. You can each apply the proper stroke with flawless form but if you are not in time with each other you are not using physics to it's fullest.
Remember, you are a tandem and not 2 independent paddlers. Work all strokes in perfect timing with each other.
Earl you have demonstrated a good attitude and a willingness to learn. You have little ego in your way. That makes you a good student. The kind of person that skilled people want to help. A paddle club may be a really good idea.
Yes this is important stuff! On the rare occasion when I paddle tandem (I'm in the stern), the bow paddler is generally lacking in experience and/or they have always paddled bow and do not have eyes in the back of their head. I find they often start to increase their stroke rate, doing so makes it harder for the stern paddler to apply correction strokes while maintaining sync with the bow paddler. In addition the faster their stroke rate the sloppier it gets and now you are both out of sync and tending to turn their power stroke into a sweep speed of their.
Practising saying in sync and maintaining a proper angle of the paddle is best done with a slower stroke rate.
I agree that being in sync is definitely something to shoot for but, for me personally, I wouldn't make it a priority at first. If you're in the stern trying to figure out correction strokes feel free to take your time and don't rush just to try and match the cadence of the bow paddler.
I hardly ever paddle tandem and when I do it's usually with someone inexperienced in the bow. I personally prefer a quick cadence but the bow paddler usually has a cadence that puts me to sleep and they switch sides or stop paddling whenever they have the whim. Rather than trying to instruct someone that really doesn't want to learn I just do my own thing. I'll often paddle at double their stroke rate so every other stroke is in sync.
I'm not saying that's optimal by any means but, despite that, I still have no problem controlling the direction of the canoe.
Paddling half their cadence would give you extra time while still being in sync every other stroke.
Alan
I hardly ever paddle tandem and when I do it's usually with someone inexperienced in the bow. I personally prefer a quick cadence but the bow paddler usually has a cadence that puts me to sleep and they switch sides or stop paddling whenever they have the whim. Rather than trying to instruct someone that really doesn't want to learn I just do my own thing. I'll often paddle at double their stroke rate so every other stroke is in sync.
I'm not saying that's optimal by any means but, despite that, I still have no problem controlling the direction of the canoe.
Paddling half their cadence would give you extra time while still being in sync every other stroke.
Alan
i have accumulated several thousand miles as a marathon race bow paddler, including training. A high percentage of those miles is in the bow of a long boat voyageur canoe with 5-6 paddlers seated behind me, mostly well experienced paddlers who well know each other. If ever there is a new paddler in the boat, I will ask how is my stroke rate, and if this is a training run I will adjust as necessary. Typically our race stroke rate is upwards of 60spm, with power sprints up to 80-85spm. Although I have no vision of how everyone is doing, I doubt that anyone's stroke could be in most cases called "sloppy". The first stroke after a hut typically does not get accomplished at the full power of succeeding strokes. The stern paddler of a long boat may or may not sty in perfect 100% sync. with every stroke. it is ok if he/she strokes at half rate, while applying draw strokes or partial rudders to keep us going where we need to go.
In winding or otherwise complex channels at speed (Brown's Tract in the Adirondacks), I will paddle and provide bow correction strokes (draws, posts, bow jams, bow rudders, and duffeks) and hut at my own pace as needed to get the bow around the bend. Meanwhile mid-paddlers behind me keep th power and speed up. When the stern paddler sees me make my move, he/she will provide what is necessary to get us into the proper approach angle to carve around the bend with minimal loss of speed.
In winding or otherwise complex channels at speed (Brown's Tract in the Adirondacks), I will paddle and provide bow correction strokes (draws, posts, bow jams, bow rudders, and duffeks) and hut at my own pace as needed to get the bow around the bend. Meanwhile mid-paddlers behind me keep th power and speed up. When the stern paddler sees me make my move, he/she will provide what is necessary to get us into the proper approach angle to carve around the bend with minimal loss of speed.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2018
- Messages
- 1,726
- Reaction score
- 1,914
Earl,
Without actually seeing you paddling, I can not know, definitively what you’re doing wrong. I agree with Nick Pending that you should join a canoe club, and ideally take a canoe course. There are great suggestions in this thread, but you need someone skilled, to actually watch you paddling.
In the beginning of our canoeing lives, Kathleen and I joined a canoe club that offered “Basic Paddlers” instruction on two successive Saturdays. After the first Saturday, we could not make our canoe go straight. We practiced all week on our own, but still could not make our canoe go straight. After the second Saturday, we more or less got the hang of the j-stroke, and could reasonably make our canoe go straight.
Eventually we became canoe instructors, teaching students who could not make their canoes go straight. They thought they were doing the j-stroke properly, but they weren’t. We had to repeatedly encourage them to watch their stroke, so they could see their improper technique.
We once had a new couple take “Basic Paddlers” when we were instructors. I told them that we always asked couples to switch ends after lunch. The husband said, “Great. That would be helpful for my wife. Because when she’s in the bow, the canoe does not go straight.” I did not directly suggest to him that when he is in the stern, when his wife was in the bow, that it was primarily his responsibility to make the canoe go straight.
We were once leading an easy whitewater trip for our canoe club when a new, unknown paddler showed up. I asked him his canoeing background and skill level. “I think I’m probably pretty good. I’ve watched all the Bill Mason videos many times.”
“OK. Let’s go.” As I anticipated he immediately capsized. Had virtually no skills at all.
Join a canoe club and also take lessons. You will be glad that you did.
Without actually seeing you paddling, I can not know, definitively what you’re doing wrong. I agree with Nick Pending that you should join a canoe club, and ideally take a canoe course. There are great suggestions in this thread, but you need someone skilled, to actually watch you paddling.
In the beginning of our canoeing lives, Kathleen and I joined a canoe club that offered “Basic Paddlers” instruction on two successive Saturdays. After the first Saturday, we could not make our canoe go straight. We practiced all week on our own, but still could not make our canoe go straight. After the second Saturday, we more or less got the hang of the j-stroke, and could reasonably make our canoe go straight.
Eventually we became canoe instructors, teaching students who could not make their canoes go straight. They thought they were doing the j-stroke properly, but they weren’t. We had to repeatedly encourage them to watch their stroke, so they could see their improper technique.
We once had a new couple take “Basic Paddlers” when we were instructors. I told them that we always asked couples to switch ends after lunch. The husband said, “Great. That would be helpful for my wife. Because when she’s in the bow, the canoe does not go straight.” I did not directly suggest to him that when he is in the stern, when his wife was in the bow, that it was primarily his responsibility to make the canoe go straight.
We were once leading an easy whitewater trip for our canoe club when a new, unknown paddler showed up. I asked him his canoeing background and skill level. “I think I’m probably pretty good. I’ve watched all the Bill Mason videos many times.”
“OK. Let’s go.” As I anticipated he immediately capsized. Had virtually no skills at all.
Join a canoe club and also take lessons. You will be glad that you did.
Last edited:
Videos do have value, however…..
Taking lessons from certified instructors was the best decision my wife and I made when we were beginning paddling. Highly recommended. Eventually I became an instructor then instructor trainer and, certainly not to toot my own horn, but I know I was able to help many beginners start to really enjoy paddling. Seeing the “light bulb” moment when the student “gets it” is the holy grail for an instructor and a good one can turn your bulb on quicker than a video can.
Personal instruction is exponentially better than watching videos due to immediate corrective and educational feedback coming from in person instructor observation. Find a qualified instructor and paddle on!
Taking lessons from certified instructors was the best decision my wife and I made when we were beginning paddling. Highly recommended. Eventually I became an instructor then instructor trainer and, certainly not to toot my own horn, but I know I was able to help many beginners start to really enjoy paddling. Seeing the “light bulb” moment when the student “gets it” is the holy grail for an instructor and a good one can turn your bulb on quicker than a video can.
Personal instruction is exponentially better than watching videos due to immediate corrective and educational feedback coming from in person instructor observation. Find a qualified instructor and paddle on!
For over 30 years I have been an instructor for BSA high adventure trek leader guides. For 8 days each June BSA has a program (Voyageurs) at a formal National Campiing School where we teach students in the classroom and also in their field experience qualification. I was never myself formally certified as a canoe instructor, but I picked up a lot from friends who were and my own "on the job" experience practice with what seemed to work best. I am also the primary senior land navigation map and compass instructor.
I learned a lot about how to teach beginners, both with a paddle and with a compass as many of our totally inexperienced typical college age students are newbies, all who want a job and to be certified to work as guides for BSA summer camps, safely leading young scouts and their adult leaders on week-long Adirondack wilderness paddling and/or backpacking treks. I very well know the satisfied instructor feeling to see the moment when the student "gets it", both in the canoe and with the compass. Nice.
I learned a lot about how to teach beginners, both with a paddle and with a compass as many of our totally inexperienced typical college age students are newbies, all who want a job and to be certified to work as guides for BSA summer camps, safely leading young scouts and their adult leaders on week-long Adirondack wilderness paddling and/or backpacking treks. I very well know the satisfied instructor feeling to see the moment when the student "gets it", both in the canoe and with the compass. Nice.
A good canoe/kayak shop usually offers lessons during the paddling season. See if you have one close to you and sign up
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
- Messages
- 282
- Reaction score
- 149
Hmmm.
Coming on to this late. I'm not going to read through all the other responses. Looked at the first couple.
I'm not a fan of paddling all purpose boats, like the Prospector, on lakes and class I rivers. I like a canoe with less rocker or asymmetrical rocker.
But even so, What you describe is odd. The boat should turn away from the side the stern paddler is on and, if you are both on the same side, it should turn away from that side. If you were doing a sweep stroke at the stern or while both on the same side, that would help, not make it worse.
Now, if the bow paddler was doing a sweep stroke and the stern paddler, on the opposite side, wasn't, that might make your canoe turn the way you describe.
A loaded canoe will track better, and more weight in the stern might make it track better, but it should paddle fine with the load you describe.
Assuming the stern paddler isn't over doing a correction stroke, my best guess is the bow paddler is messing things up.
Coming on to this late. I'm not going to read through all the other responses. Looked at the first couple.
I'm not a fan of paddling all purpose boats, like the Prospector, on lakes and class I rivers. I like a canoe with less rocker or asymmetrical rocker.
But even so, What you describe is odd. The boat should turn away from the side the stern paddler is on and, if you are both on the same side, it should turn away from that side. If you were doing a sweep stroke at the stern or while both on the same side, that would help, not make it worse.
Now, if the bow paddler was doing a sweep stroke and the stern paddler, on the opposite side, wasn't, that might make your canoe turn the way you describe.
A loaded canoe will track better, and more weight in the stern might make it track better, but it should paddle fine with the load you describe.
Assuming the stern paddler isn't over doing a correction stroke, my best guess is the bow paddler is messing things up.
