• Happy Patent for First Computer Mouse (1970)! 🖥️🖱️🐁

What are we doing wrong?

E

Earl

Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
10
Reaction score
7
I will preface this by saying we are absolute newbies, and our paddling skills are only one step above just flailing the paddle in the water ...

We had a loaner canoe last year, of unknown make and model. It was a relatively flat bottomed canoe with a slight keel, Kevlar, and about 15 feet in length. My wife and I were able to paddle this canoe in a reasonably straight line over a long distance.

Today we took a 16 foot Nova Craft Prospector in blue steel for a paddle. No keel on this boat. Front passenger weighs about 150 pounds, rear passenger about 175 pounds. Water was a man made lake - but in reality it is just a really big pond. Water was flat as a pancake, no wind, no current to contend with. Canoe was empty except for the two paddlers.

We could not paddle that canoe in a straight line regardless of what we tried. The really annoying thing, was that on occasion, if both paddlers were paddling on the same side in an attempt to quickly correct our course, the canoe would actually turn towards that side, instead of turning towards the opposite side. For example two paddling on starboard side and canoe would continue to turn to starboard. Same would happen on port side.

The only way we could make progress towards desired direction was to have the stern paddler brake/drag to force rotation of the bow to desired direction.

We know our paddle technique needs to improve, but what the heck is going on here?

Should we try adding additional weight to the boat so it sits lower in the water? More weight near the bow to attempt to equal the weight of the stern passenger?

Is there a specific technique for paddling a keel-less Prospector that we should learn?
 
One of the most common causes of what you are describing is simple bad paddling technique, It is however quite easy to fix.

You are probably doing a sweep stroke with your paddle looking like this "\" instead of like this "|". Keels on a canoe don't really help and can in fact make the situation worse because it makes it more difficult to make correction strokes.

Most Prospector style* canoes are designed to easily turn and are best in moving water especially if your basic technique is lacking.

I'm crappy at instruction so I will leave it to other to further comment on what you can do to prevent the turning issues.

* Most canoe manufacturers make a "prospector" but there really isn't any standard so 3 different brands of "prospector" will handle quite differently.

.
 
Keels don't make much difference in tracking, it's mostly down to your technique. NC prospector has more rocker than some canoes, but is still relatively easy to make it go in a straight line. Your weight difference is also minimal.
Have you watched any videos on the J Stroke or the Goon stroke? Both of these are stern correction strokes that will make the canoe straight. I wonder if your wife's stroke is parallel and perpendicular to the side of the canoe she is on? If she is pulling the paddle in toward her on her strokes, the canoe will turn to her side.
If you are brave, get someone to film you while you paddle and post it here.. .we could probably reach some kind of consensus on how to improve your technique quickly.
 
Earl, welcome to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Also, because canoeing is a geographic sport, please add your location to the Account Details page in your profile, which will cause it to show under your avatar as a clickable map link. Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

The short answer, as you suspect, is that you don't know how to paddle a canoe. Paddling properly is a lot harder than learning how to ride a bike, and you can't just hop on a bike with no experience and expect to do well.

Worsening your lack of skills, the Prospector is a boat with a rockered (banana shaped) keel line as viewed from a side profile. This means the canoe has been designed more to turn easily than to go straight easily. Straight tracking canoes will have little or no keel line rocker. But even a canoe with an unrockered keel line needs proper paddling technique to go straight.

When tandem, the stern paddler has most of the leverage and must use a "correction stroke" to dampen or nullify the tendency of the canoe to yaw to the off-side. There are a few correction techniques, but the simplest two are the rudder (or goon stroke) and, preferably, the J stroke. Search for videos on the J stroke.

The bow paddler can also pull a yawing canoe back into line by learning the draw stroke and cross-draw stroke, but those are not strokes to be used continuously for efficient straight ahead paddling.

The tandem canoe should be kept level when trying to go straight, not tipped, leaned or "heeled" over to one side or the other. Heeling a canoe assists and accelerates turning. Both paddlers should keep their paddles as vertical as possible and pull them back parallel to the keel line—not along the gunwale line, which will morph the stroke into a sweep stroke, which will turn the canoe. Except, as said above, the stern paddler must use a correction at the end of his stroke, which does create a sort of drag.

Earl said:
The really annoying thing, was that on occasion, if both paddlers were paddling on the same side in an attempt to quickly correct our course, the canoe would actually turn towards that side, instead of turning towards the opposite side. For example two paddling on starboard side and canoe would continue to turn to starboard. Same would happen on port side.
Click to expand...

This is to be expected. If your canoe starts to carve to the right, for example, and both paddlers switch to the right, they will end up heeling the canoe to the right. The heel will accelerate the carving arc to the right because a wave of water force will build up on the left bow plane. It will be very hard to correct this rightward carving arc once it tightens into small radius, even with both of you sweep stroking on the right trying to make the canoe go left.

The technique, again, is to damp that tendency to yaw and then carve right or left almost immediately as the yaw begins. And, again, that is mainly the job of the stern paddler by using, preferably, a J stroke correction at the end of every stroke. The strength of the correction force becomes second nature and automatic with enough experience, just like staying upright and straight on a bike.

This all sounds more complicated than it really is when described in words. Look at instructional videos and, most effectively, take some instruction, preferably in an unrockered canoe. When you progress to the stage where you actually want to learn how to do sophisticated and sharp turns, then it is time to learn more about heeling while using a rockered canoe.
 
In addition to the good advice above a quick thing to learn is draw and pry strokes. Many people, when a canoe begins to veer, just paddle harder on the side of the canoe that should straighten it out. This can work but once the canoe starts to carve a turn, like you experienced, it can be difficult to bring back in line with that method.
Instead the stern paddler (or bow paddler) can perform either a pry or a draw stroke to straighten the canoe.
The pry or draw only provides turning forces with no forward propulsion.

Learning to paddle properly can be very frustrating but also very rewarding. Good for you for asking advice rather than just bickering with your partner and quitting. :)

Alan
 
I can highly recommend this video by my friend, Caleb Davis on flatwater paddling. it is not highly technical like some others you will encounter online, save those fancy freestyle techniques for later (Caleb is an expert in those too). But in this introductory video Caleb will get you to know your canoe and with his simple techniques you will go straight or turn as desired. Practice, practice, practice, and once you learn how to link one stroke type to another, it all becomes as automatic as riding a bike as your canoe readily responds to your "will" withuut any extra effort or thought.

 
Last edited:
Prospectors may seem frustrating since they turn so easily but I think they are ideal learning boats since they do exactly what the paddle tells them to do.

I'm sure there's a lot of good info in the videos.

I'd say start by going as slow as you can so you can feel the boat react to the paddle. Let the bow paddler do all the paddling. Remember to put the paddle in the water vertically, like "dropping it into a mail slot". Take very short, gentle strokes...like one foot long. First let the bow paddler take a short, gentle stroke parallel to the boat's keel. The boat will turn gently away from the side you're paddling on. Now stop and try the same stroke angled slightly towards the boat...reaching out 6 inches or so further than the parallel stroke and pulling it straight back towards the boat, angled perhaps 20 degrees from a parallel stroke. Try it from a dead stop a bunch of times and you will find that the bow does not turn away from the side you are paddling on, you can quite literally "pull" the bow towards the paddle. That's called a draw stroke and it keeps the boat from trying to yaw immediately. It doesn't take much, just a slight angle from parallel and the boat is more under control. The stroke is also helpful to let the bow paddle help steer the boat when cruising. Go slow and try to let the bow paddler control the boat alone. Then add the stern, just gentle short strokes parallel to the boat. The stronger paddler to should dial back their strength to match the weaker paddler or the boat will want to turn. Less is more.

Once you feel a little bit comfy you can try adding a new stroke or two. It's fine for the stern paddler to use the paddle as a rudder. Over time you can use a J-stroke and just give a gentle outward kick at the end of each stern stroke to provide a more subtle ongoing rudder effect. I think it would be very useful for the bow paddler to practice using the paddle as a bow rudder. With the boat moving slowly, just stick the paddle in the water ahead of you and hold it firmly at a slight angle outward from parallel and the boat just turns towards the paddle. It's easy and will give the bow paddler more confidence that they can help steer the boat any time.

Just my thoughts. Go super slow and focus on learning one or two strokes and you'll be on your way.
 
Following up with what gumpus advised, let the bow paddler provide gentle strokes just to keep some forward motion. The stern paddler should put his/her paddle in as a rudder. Grip hand thumb up as a "goon" rudder, or thumb down as part of a proper "J" stroke. With the blade perpendicular to and below the surface, either method will steer the canoe as a rudder. The farther behind the blade, the greater the effect. Now try a couple of things. The first is to pull the grip hand inward and push the blade away from the centerline direction, notice that the canoe will turn toward that side. The second thing to try is only slightly more tricky. Push the grip hand out and pull the blade inward so that the blade tip angles inward and the blade aims across the centerline direction. The canoe will then turn away from the paddle side.

Another modification of this technique is to keep the vertical held blade pointed straight behind inline with the forward direction and simply tip the blade from vertical left or right. You will notice the canoe will tend to turn left or right without any other force or motion.

Do these things to get the "feel" of the water on the paddle and what it does for canoe direction control. As Caleb says, "get your head in the water", not literally of course, but understand how blade control works with the water flowing over it and how you control your boat.

If the bow paddler is struggling to keep you moving forward, these stern control techniques work just as well when a third person can give the boat a little forward momentum while standing in shallow water with a gentle shove.

Now, when comfortable with ability to turn left or right, (I have always said if you know how to turn then you automatically already know hot to go straight). Then give one gentle power stroke in line with the center hull, then go right back to the rudder to keep straight. Then link two strokes, rudder, and then another. Soon enough you will not need to hold the rudder in place and can focus on perfecting a pure "J" stroke without the need for a rudder hold at all and the less you allow the blade to go far back beyond your hip.
 
Last edited:
Hi Ear,
Welcome to the world of canoeing.
The only thing you are doing wrong is not learning how to paddle. Read some books, take a class, hang around with some skilled people.
You are demonstrating why the little plastic kayaks are so popular. They take almost no skill.
Take the time to learn some correction strokes, especially in the stern seat. Learn the J stroke, Canadian stroke or another way to control your canoe. It is not that hard and you will start enjoying yourselves.
 
memaquay said:
Keels don't make much difference in tracking, it's mostly down to your technique. NC prospector has more rocker than some canoes, but is still relatively easy to make it go in a straight line. Your weight difference is also minimal.
Have you watched any videos on the J Stroke or the Goon stroke? Both of these are stern correction strokes that will make the canoe straight. I wonder if your wife's stroke is parallel and perpendicular to the side of the canoe she is on? If she is pulling the paddle in toward her on her strokes, the canoe will turn to her side.
If you are brave, get someone to film you while you paddle and post it here.. .we could probably reach some kind of consensus on how to improve your technique quickly.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice. We shall be firing up the youtube videos before our next outing to learn from our mistakes.
 
Welcome Earl. By asking advice, you're already doing something right. By all means, watch the above videos and see if there's a paddling club in your area that offers instruction. (Let us know where you live and someone here can probably help you locate one)

Paddling with a single blade, the learning curve is steeper at the beginning of the process but boat control and paddling technique improve rapidly with practice. Keep at it and I think you'll find it rewarding.
 
recped said:
One of the most common causes of what you are describing is simple bad paddling technique, It is however quite easy to fix.

You are probably doing a sweep stroke with your paddle looking like this "\" instead of like this "|". Keels on a canoe don't really help and can in fact make the situation worse because it makes it more difficult to make correction strokes.

Most Prospector style* canoes are designed to easily turn and are best in moving water especially if your basic technique is lacking.

I'm crappy at instruction so I will leave it to other to further comment on what you can do to prevent the turning issues.

* Most canoe manufacturers make a "prospector" but there really isn't any standard so 3 different brands of "prospector" will handle quite differently.

.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply. It is much appreciated.
 
Glenn MacGrady said:
Earl, welcome to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Also, because canoeing is a geographic sport, please add your location to the Account Details page in your profile, which will cause it to show under your avatar as a clickable map link. Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

The short answer, as you suspect, is that you don't know how to paddle a canoe. Paddling properly is a lot harder than learning how to ride a bike, and you can't just hop on a bike with no experience and expect to do well.

Worsening your lack of skills, the Prospector is a boat with a rockered (banana shaped) keel line as viewed from a side profile. This means the canoe has been designed more to turn easily than to go straight easily. Straight tracking canoes will have little or no keel line rocker. But even a canoe with an unrockered keel line needs proper paddling technique to go straight.

When tandem, the stern paddler has most of the leverage and must use a "correction stroke" to dampen or nullify the tendency of the canoe to yaw to the off-side. There are a few correction techniques, but the simplest two are the rudder (or goon stroke) and, preferably, the J stroke. Search for videos on the J stroke.

The bow paddler can also pull a yawing canoe back into line by learning the draw stroke and cross-draw stroke, but those are not strokes to be used continuously for efficient straight ahead paddling.

The tandem canoe should be kept level when trying to go straight, not tipped, leaned or "heeled" over to one side or the other. Heeling a canoe assists and accelerates turning. Both paddlers should keep their paddles as vertical as possible and pull them back parallel to the keel line—not along the gunwale line, which will morph the stroke into a sweep stroke, which will turn the canoe. Except, as said above, the stern paddler must use a correction at the end of his stroke, which does create a sort of drag.



This is to be expected. If your canoe starts to carve to the right, for example, and both paddlers switch to the right, they will end up heeling the canoe to the right. The heel will accelerate the carving arc to the right because a wave of water force will build up on the left bow plane. It will be very hard to correct this rightward carving arc once it tightens into small radius, even with both of you sweep stroking on the right trying to make the canoe go left.

The technique, again, is to damp that tendency to yaw and then carve right or left almost immediately as the yaw begins. And, again, that is mainly the job of the stern paddler by using, preferably, a J stroke correction at the end of every stroke. The strength of the correction force becomes second nature and automatic with enough experience, just like staying upright and straight on a bike.

This all sounds more complicated than it really is when described in words. Look at instructional videos and, most effectively, take some instruction, preferably in an unrockered canoe. When you progress to the stage where you actually want to learn how to do sophisticated and sharp turns, then it is time to learn more about heeling while using a rockered canoe.
Click to expand...
Your comment "you don't know how to paddle a canoe" made me laugh... can't argue with that observation.

I appreciate all of your help and especially the comments about carve and yaw, as I was not aware that this is what was happening.

Thank you again
 
Alan Gage said:
In addition to the good advice above a quick thing to learn is draw and pry strokes. Many people, when a canoe begins to veer, just paddle harder on the side of the canoe that should straighten it out. This can work but once the canoe starts to carve a turn, like you experienced, it can be difficult to bring back in line with that method.
Instead the stern paddler (or bow paddler) can perform either a pry or a draw stroke to straighten the canoe.
The pry or draw only provides turning forces with no forward propulsion.

Learning to paddle properly can be very frustrating but also very rewarding. Good for you for asking advice rather than just bickering with your partner and quitting. :)

Alan
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice.

I can't bicker with my wife otherwise she will never get in the canoe again. And I need someone to help paddle!!
 
yknpdlr said:
I can highly recommend this video by my friend, Caleb Davis on flatwater paddling. it is not highly technical like some others you will encounter online, save those fancy freestyle techniques for later (Caleb is an expert in those too). But in this introductory video Caleb will get you to know your canoe and with his simple techniques you will go straight or turn as desired. Practice, practice, practice, and once you learn how to link one stroke type to another, it all becomes as automatic as riding a bike as your canoe readily responds to your "will" withuut any extra effort or thought.

Click to expand...
Thank you for the video suggestion. We need all the help we can get.
 
Glenn MacGrady said:
For a classic tandem instructional video, here is canoeing and canoe movie making legend Bill Mason and his son Paul in a Chestnut Prospector. The stroke technigue instruction begins after a 6+ minute introduction.

Click to expand...
Thank you!!
 
gumpus said:
Prospectors may seem frustrating since they turn so easily but I think they are ideal learning boats since they do exactly what the paddle tells them to do.

I'm sure there's a lot of good info in the videos.

I'd say start by going as slow as you can so you can feel the boat react to the paddle. Let the bow paddler do all the paddling. Remember to put the paddle in the water vertically, like "dropping it into a mail slot". Take very short, gentle strokes...like one foot long. First let the bow paddler take a short, gentle stroke parallel to the boat's keel. The boat will turn gently away from the side you're paddling on. Now stop and try the same stroke angled slightly towards the boat...reaching out 6 inches or so further than the parallel stroke and pulling it straight back towards the boat, angled perhaps 20 degrees from a parallel stroke. Try it from a dead stop a bunch of times and you will find that the bow does not turn away from the side you are paddling on, you can quite literally "pull" the bow towards the paddle. That's called a draw stroke and it keeps the boat from trying to yaw immediately. It doesn't take much, just a slight angle from parallel and the boat is more under control. The stroke is also helpful to let the bow paddle help steer the boat when cruising. Go slow and try to let the bow paddler control the boat alone. Then add the stern, just gentle short strokes parallel to the boat. The stronger paddler to should dial back their strength to match the weaker paddler or the boat will want to turn. Less is more.

Once you feel a little bit comfy you can try adding a new stroke or two. It's fine for the stern paddler to use the paddle as a rudder. Over time you can use a J-stroke and just give a gentle outward kick at the end of each stern stroke to provide a more subtle ongoing rudder effect. I think it would be very useful for the bow paddler to practice using the paddle as a bow rudder. With the boat moving slowly, just stick the paddle in the water ahead of you and hold it firmly at a slight angle outward from parallel and the boat just turns towards the paddle. It's easy and will give the bow paddler more confidence that they can help steer the boat any time.

Just my thoughts. Go super slow and focus on learning one or two strokes and you'll be on your way.
Click to expand...
I really like your suggestion of each paddler taking a turn to paddle independently. I think this is a great idea, as each of us will be able to see how we are affecting the direction of the canoe, and what we each need to do to be able to head in a straight line.

We definitely will be doing this our next time.

Thank you!
 
yknpdlr said:
Following up with what gumpus advised, let the bow paddler provide gentle strokes just to keep some forward motion. The stern paddler should put his/her paddle in as a rudder. Grip hand thumb up as a "goon" rudder, or thumb down as part of a proper "J" stroke. With the blade perpendicular to and below the surface, either method will steer the canoe as a rudder. The farther behind the blade, the greater the effect. Now try a couple of things. The first is to pull the grip hand inward and push the blade away from the centerline direction, notice that the canoe will turn toward that side. The second thing to try is only slightly more tricky. Push the grip hand out and pull the blade inward so that the blade tip angles inward and the blade aims across the centerline direction. The canoe will then turn away from the paddle side.

Another modification of this technique is to keep the vertical held blade pointed straight behind inline with the forward direction and simply tip the blade from vertical left or right. You will notice the canoe will tend to turn left or right without any other force or motion.

Do these things to get the "feel" of the water on the paddle and what it does for canoe direction control. As Caleb says, "get your head in the water", not literally of course, but understand how blade control works with the water flowing over it and how you control your boat.

If the bow paddler is struggling to keep you moving forward, these stern control techniques work just as well when a third person can give the boat a little forward momentum while standing in shallow water with a gentle shove.

Now, when comfortable with ability to turn left or right, (I have always siaid if you know how to turn then you automatically already know hot to go straight). Then give one gentle power stroke in line with the center hull, then go right back to the rudder to keep straight. Then link two strokes, rudder, and then another. Soon enough you will not need to hold the rudder in place and can focus on perfecting a pure "J" stroke without the need for a rudder hold at all and the less you allow the blade to go far back beyond your hip.
Click to expand...
We have a cow pond on the farm. If the pond was a bit bigger I would be out there right now trying the rudder technique as you describe.

I wonder if I can convince my wife that we need to enlarge the pond?
 
Gamma1214 said:
Welcome Earl. By asking advice, you're already doing something right. By all means, watch the above videos and see if there's a paddling club in your area that offers instruction. (Let us know where you live and someone here can probably help you locate one)

Paddling with a single blade, the learning curve is steeper at the beginning of the process but boat control and paddling technique improve rapidly with practice. Keep at it and I think you'll find it rewarding.
Click to expand...
We are located in the Niagara Region, but the largest nearby city would be Hamilton Ontario.

Instruction from a real person would definitely be of benefit to us.

Thank you for the reply.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Saskatchewan Portage Clearing 2024
Replies
8
Views
264
Gamma1214
Gamma1214
alsg
Ever have a downriver wind push you up river?
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Chip
Chip
Glenn MacGrady
How to Position a Central Seat in a Solo Canoe
Replies
4
Views
629
Alan Gage
A
Roybrew
Little River Tennessee
Replies
2
Views
255
Penns Woods
Penns Woods
Nick Pending
Open Canoeing the Grand Canyon
Replies
12
Views
305
Johnny 5
Johnny 5
Back
Top