Help, I need to expand my horizons.

Sorry for the long post, but I figure the more info I give, the better info I'll get.
I'm fairly new to the site but not new to canoes, or camping. We have been on some great trips but for the most part, we do a lot of day trips or our canoe camping has been repeats to the same places.
I'd say we are intermediate paddlers. Very capable on class 2, and okay on lakes but we don't have spray covers so we are well aware of the dangers on large, windy lakes. Not at all against paddling lakes but I have a deep respect for big water.

We started getting serious about BWCA but it's getting tiresome with the permit system, campsite system, and competition for open sites, and now the new regs on bear containers. I'd deal with any of those things but when all added up, I'm thinking we just need to move on to new adventures.

The main reason I joined the site was to learn some options from you good people if you care to share info. At the same time, I realize that publicizing stuff can sometimes ruin a good thing so I understand if anyone is cryptic or vague with their suggestions.

I guess I should reveal a few things about us in order to get more applicable feedback.
My wife and I are located in SW PA, we are 66 and retired, and in good health overall. She's in great shape. My main issue is I have a bad ankle which can limit portaging...For now. I fully intend on rectifying the situation (may have to actually have a replacement in the next year) but for the sake of this discussion, we'd prefer short, easier portages or none at all. But I also realize the best places are usually at least a couple of carries away. We double portage.

We own 2 tandems, a royalex and a carbon. Both great boats but I'm not running the carbon down rocky rivers and the royalex is a bit heavy for me to portage. Just something to keep in mind when suggesting routes.

We love rivers but we have a great flatwater boat so we are open to either types of trips. Seems like a lot of the Maine trips that I've read about are a mix of lakes and rivers (Allagash). I guess that means using our royalex on trips like that?? I hate the thoughts of carrying that boat long distances or over rugged terrain.

We seldom trip with other people, so shuttles or loops are something we normally need to plan out. We aren't against paddling with others but most of our friends either don't canoe camp, or their schedules don't mesh with ours. Or...someone would kill the others. Haha 4 go out and 2 come back! JK.

Minor detail...We tent camp, no hammocks in case that effects any suggestions.

We aren't afraid to drive. We've driven to Montana a few times to run rivers.
Never did anything in Canada (YET). Been watching some Canada YouTubers (Northern Scavenger, Lost Lakes, Jim and Ted Baird, etc) and those trips excite me and scare me at the same time. Some of their portages are down right brutal.
I'd consider Canada but I'm just not sure that I want to cross the border. I know I know...Thousands of people do it every day. It's just something I'll have to deal with.

Fishing is a high priority. Especially for smallmouth.

States/areas I'd like to hear suggestions...
MN (other than BW). Voyagers worth checking out?
We took a short trip to Isle Royal last year. No canoe, just some hikes. Are those portages on I.R. as hard as I think they are?

WI, MI, NY, ME, or ??
Thanks in advance for any help!

There are few places in the US that I'd go canoe tripping. I prefer something a bit more remote with less people. Canada is so full of different routes it can be overwhelming sometimes.

In Minnesota the Big Fork river comes to mind. It's a small and mostly lazy river with only a couple short portages and mild rapids (except for the ones that are portaged). You'll cross highway bridges a few times and go through a couple small towns (200 people) but it's a nice and scenic river. I've paddled it a couple times and have never seen anyone else on the water. It does have smallmouth but I don't know how strong the fishery is.

During dry summers it can be almost impassable and at flood level it's not scary but it's not fun either because everything is washed out. No gravel bars or shallows to swim/wade. There are well spaced camping areas along the way. I've never shared them with anyone.

The river flows north to the Canada border. It took me 4 or 5 days to paddle the entire length of it. It flows into the Rainy River so you could prolong the trip by continuing downstream.


Alan

Try Quetico. Essentially just a northern extension of the boundary waters but less people. As far as I know still easy enough to get permits. Once you do your first trip there you’ll become aware of the limitless paddling opportunities in Canada. Protecting your food from animals is important anywhere you go. A fed bear is a dead bear as the saying goes.

Mark

Have you been to the Adirondacks yet? There are quite a few routes up there and if your ankle is still giving trouble you can use a canoe cart on many of the portages. Something to think about; not too far away from you and no national borders to cross!

SouthernKevlar said:

Have you been to the Adirondacks yet? There are quite a few routes up there and if your ankle is still giving trouble you can use a canoe cart on many of the portages. Something to think about; not too far away from you and no national borders to cross!

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We did Lake Lila once. Pretty nice.
Went through that region many years ago on our way to Baxter. We weren't canoeing though.

Living near Canadian border we cross frequently and it's gotten very easy. Worst is a 5 to 10 minute wait.

Limited portages seems to exclude BWCAW and Quetico and a number of the Canadian provincial parks. (I think the BWCAW permit system and campsites are easier than you suggest. For sure after Labor Day and October is my favorite time there.)

You should check out Northern Forest Canoe Trail. I believe most of the portages in the NY section are wheelable. Maybe a couple are not.

Easy, long, and different - Erie Canal. Not wilderness, and train noise at many camp sites, but interesting.

I know you said you aren’t sure about crossing the border into Canada, but a nice trip with minimal portages can be done in a loop from Hartley Bay Marina on the Lower French River out to the Georgian Bay of Lake Huron and then back up a different channel of the French to Hartley Bay. The drive for you is probably around 8 hrs. This trip would require minimal portages. Maybe 2 or 3.

The French River has some boat traffic and cottages, but the section of the Georgian Bay below the French is quite isolated. Boats have to run a rapid to get to the bay and back from the French, so only a handful of locals make the trip back and forth from some outpost camps.

The farther away you get from Hartley Bay Marina the more remote the trip gets. Fishing on the river is okay, but the bass fishing in the bay is some of the best I’ve ever encountered. The scenery is also pretty great on the lower river but especially on the bay.

You could do a loop in 3-4 days or extend the trip and spend as much time as you want exploring the different red granite archipelagos on the Georgian bay.

How long of a trip would you prefer? A week, a few days? A few weeks? Weeks long trips in the Adirondacks are not typical, unless you're willing to carry significant distances, so I'll stick to shorter trip suggestions.
Lake Lila is great, lots to see and do, but it has become pretty popular. (I've been visiting there since before the great camp was removed).
Little Tupper is just down the road from Lila, requires no carrying, and has a plethora of beautiful sites, many with natural sand beaches. Connected to Little Tupper with but a short carry, is Rock Pond, even on holiday weekends you'll maybe see a few folks.
An underused area is the Essex Chain Lakes, a bit of a carry to start with, but easily carted on old roads. Eight mostly interconnected lakes, and a trip down the outlet (The Chain Drain) leads to a seldom visited chasm and a couple intimate rivers (Rock, Cedar).
You could stay at Lake Harris, a NYS public campground (assigned sites, potable water, bathrooms and showers), and visit the Essex Chain Lakes, Henderson Lake (nice views of the High Peaks), Cheney Pond (with an out and back trip down the Boreas River), Boreas Ponds (short carry or wheel on old roads) with spectacular views of the High Peaks. Day trips to all of these could take a week, or take a few days camping on each of them and spend two weeks seeing them all. All are motor free, with water access camping...no permits, no reservations, no cumbersome requirements, but a maximum of 3 days at any one site, unless you arrange with a DEC ranger to stay at a site longer.
Of course there's St Regis Canoe Wilderness area, a bit more carrying if you want to really penetrate the area.
I've spent a lifetime exploring the paddling and camping in the ADK's, and still have an ever growing list of places I need to see.

Here's a few peeks at the areas...
Little Tupper



Chasm at the Chain drain




Boreas River




Boreas Ponds

Nothing wrong with that advice!

stripperguy said:

How long of a trip would you prefer? A week, a few days? A few weeks? Weeks long trips in the Adirondacks are not typical, unless you're willing to carry significant distances, so I'll stick to shorter trip suggestions.
Lake Lila is great, lots to see and do, but it has become pretty popular. (I've been visiting there since before the great camp was removed).
Little Tupper is just down the road from Lila, requires no carrying, and has a plethora of beautiful sites, many with natural sand beaches. Connected to Little Tupper with but a short carry, is Rock Pond, even on holiday weekends you'll maybe see a few folks.
An underused area is the Essex Chain Lakes, a bit of a carry to start with, but easily carted on old roads. Eight mostly interconnected lakes, and a trip down the outlet (The Chain Drain) leads to a seldom visited chasm and a couple intimate rivers (Rock, Cedar).
You could stay at Lake Harris, a NYS public campground (assigned sites, potable water, bathrooms and showers), and visit the Essex Chain Lakes, Henderson Lake (nice views of the High Peaks), Cheney Pond (with an out and back trip down the Boreas River), Boreas Ponds (short carry or wheel on old roads) with spectacular views of the High Peaks. Day trips to all of these could take a week, or take a few days camping on each of them and spend two weeks seeing them all. All are motor free, with water access camping...no permits, no reservations, no cumbersome requirements, but a maximum of 3 days at any one site, unless you arrange with a DEC ranger to stay at a site longer.
Of course there's St Regis Canoe Wilderness area, a bit more carrying if you want to really penetrate the area.
I've spent a lifetime exploring the paddling and camping in the ADK's, and still have an ever growing list of places I need to see.

Here's a few peeks at the areas...
Little Tupper

View attachment 142283

Chasm at the Chain drain

View attachment 142284


Boreas River

View attachment 142285


Boreas Ponds

View attachment 142286

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Most likely 4-8 days.
It really depends on the trip. If the smallmouth fishing is good, it would be easy to stretch the trip into more days!
The Adirondacks would be high on our list if I can figure out appropriate routes. Thanks for the advice.

UP and N.WI also intrigue me. All of them are closer to home than BWCA or ME.

My go to place now is Atikaki PP in SE Manitoba. We fly in about 50 miles from Bissett, Manitoba. Adventure Air took over the Bluewater operation there. No permits, no park trail maintenance, no usable canoe map and very few paddlers. Northern Tier Scouts kept many trails clear but have now pulled out. That being said you can find my gpx files and info on Canadian Canoe Routes (CCR) under Atikaki in the routes database. You can paddle in from Wallace lake but it involves a lot of portaging. I prefer the area north of the Bloodvein River and there are connecting portages but just maintained by users. A few outpost fishing camps and float planes passing over but many lakes see no one for years. My videos on YouTube can let you see what is up there.

If I lived in PA I would head for Michigan or northern Wisconsin rivers first. Then maybe Maine.
Quetico instead of BWCA.
Buffalo River.

There are simply too many places to paddle & so little time to visit them all.

Superior Nat'l Forest is a lot bigger than just the BWCA and I wonder how many more areas like this there are. (sorry, the pictures on that thread no longer enlarge [at least they didn't for me] so the map's kinda hard to read).

I agree, though, I'd be looking to save drive time & explore the UP if I were to stay South of the border.

Allegheny Tom said:

I have a deep respect for big water.

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Good to know what conditions would be a challenge for you. For comparison purposes, what would you consider to be "Big Water" in this context?

sailsman63 said:

Good to know what conditions would be a challenge for you. For comparison purposes, what would you consider to be "Big Water" in this context?

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I was mostly talking about large open water crossings with 2+ foot waves.
If it's a sketchy crossing and choppy water, it's an easy call...hunker down and wait it out.
But there are those times when the decision is not so easy. Relatively calm on the lee end of the lake, but maybe rocking and rolling where I need to go and no way to really know that until things start getting a bit rough and I'm already "in it". Near-shore chop is one thing but being a half mile from shore when conditions suddenly change for the worse gives me the willies. And my wife is a real trooper with lots of things but she's a scaredy cat when it comes to wind. On the water, or at a wooded campsite, she doesn't like wind.

If you're willing to come to Wisconsin, you might like Lake Chippewa Flowage. (See this trip report)

Popular fishing lake with lots of crannies to explore, but very little housing on the lake so you'll have space. A couple of feeder rivers that should be paddleable, as well.

Don't let the conditions that I experienced panic you - they were exceptional, caused by a very broad wind front. (My parents were over 200 mi NW at the time, mostly windbound with a powerboat due to the same weather system.)