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Help me upgrade from my current solo: Wenonah Vagabond

Rivercane

Rivercane

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I've had a couple of royalex Wenonah solos over the last several years, and spent most of that time in a Vagabond. It's served me well for general plunking around and fishing, but I'm ready to get something new and hopefully my first composite canoe.

My only real beef with the Vagabond is that it doesn't seem to have much glide/efficiency/pizazz to it. I don't mind the weight, but the floppy bottom is a little disappointing even if it's only a cosmetic thing.

So. I'm in the southeast and composite canoes aren't really a thing here. So used is a lost hope. I DO have a dealer about 3 hours away that can get the following brands:

Northstar, Wenonah, Swift, Nova Craft

The canoes I've had in mind for what I think I would like:

Northstar Trillium
Northstar Magic
Swift Keewaydin 15
Northstar Northwind Solo

My uses are almost exclusively flat water. Some of that being big open river or lake type paddling, and other being small creeks. No whitewater of any sort.

I just need a somewhat stable and efficient boat that I can cover some ground on open water without a lot of fuss.

My heart says get a Magic because it should be a ground covering machine. And I like the idea of that.

My head says one of the smaller boats may be a more sensible and more manueverable choice, and maybe easier to tame when a stiff breeze blows up.

I'm 5' 9" and weigh about 150 pounds. My usual gear load likely won't ever exceed 50 pounds. Occasionally I may toss a 125 pound deer in the boat and have to paddle home, but this won't be often enough to be a huge consideration, but it would need to possible at least.

All of the grunt will be provided by a single blade, and I'm not much on kneeling. Seated, bent shaft is how I usually roll.

I sure appreciate y'all reading, and I hope you can point me down the right path. Thank you in advance! PXL_20240628_163957258.jpg
 
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I used to own a Magic. A great all around boat and I think it would fit your stated needs very well. I'm 6' 165 pounds.

I used it on lakes and slow rivers for lazy day paddles, fitness paddling, and fishing. I often had my dog with me. It also did a couple 5-10 day solo canoe trips as well.

I liked the boat and would be happy to paddle one again.

I used to own Vagabond too. It was ok. I have no desire to paddle one again.

I assume the Trillium is supposed to fill a similar roll to something like the Wildfire? I've owned one of those too and while it was a fun little boat it was not something I would have wanted as my main canoe. I like boats with harder tracking and geared more towards sitting.

I can't speak to the others on your list.

Alan
 
Each the canoes you mentioned are considerably narrower at the waterline than your Vagabond which will make them feel less stable than your Vagabond.

I’m using a Northstar Polaris with a center seat as a solo canoe, only 1 inch wider at the waterline than the Vagabond. As a solo the Polaris is a combination of stability and speed. At nearly 17 feet in length it has glide. As a narrow tandem it has the volume to bring home a deer. Ordered it built as a 3 seater with a center seat foot bar. After taking bow & stern seats out, and replaced with thwarts, it weighs 37 pounds.

IMG_0175.jpeg
 
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I have had both a Vagabond and Trillium, both good boats but lacked personality. Aesthetically, I care not for the Northstar line of boats, but realize I am in the minority. Currently paddle a Swift Keewaydin 14 as it is a better fit than the Kee 15. It's hard to imagine that given a side-by-side comparison between Swift and any Northstar hull one would not choose Swift, unless dissuaded by the cost. I'm 5'8", 185 pounds.
 
M Clemens said:
I have had both a Vagabond and Trillium, both good boats but lacked personality. Aesthetically, I care not for the Northstar line of boats, but realize I am in the minority. Currently paddle a Swift Keewaydin 14 as it is a better fit than the Kee 15. It's hard to imagine that given a side-by-side comparison between Swift and any Northstar hull one would not choose Swift, unless dissuaded by the cost. I'm 5'8", 185 pounds.
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Funny you mention that...

I visited the dealer a couple weeks ago and got to see Northstars alongside Swifts. I was pretty surprised at how um....workmanlike the Northstars were. Sharp resin ridges all inside the hull, the raised seam in the middle from the mold, etc.

The Swift next to it was very well finished and smooth and everything fit together perfectly. It was a much nicer finished boat overall and a work of art by comparison. They do tend to be slightly more expensive however.

Id still own either.
 
Will Derness said:
Each the canoes you mentioned are considerably narrower at the waterline than your Vagabond which will make them feel less stable than your Vagabond.

I’m using a Northstar Polaris with a center seat as a solo canoe, only 1 inch wider at the waterline than the Vagabond. As a solo the Polaris is a combination of stability and speed. At nearly 17 feet in length it has glide. As a narrow tandem it has the volume to bring home a deer. Ordered it built as a 3 seater with a center seat foot bar. After taking bow & stern seats out, and replaced with thwarts, it weighs 37 pounds.

View attachment 142088
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This is something that I had considered heavily. I have a co-paddler that tags along a lot of the time, and the idea of getting a new good canoe to fill both roles was very appealing. Through my looking around I believe you're right that the Polaris would be the best boat to pull it off.

But....I have a small tandem now that I actually really like, a Dagger Reflection 15. I put a center seat in it as well to try to pull double duty but it's too wide.

I love the idea, but I'd have to paddle one first to sell myself on it.

Thank you very much for the idea and sharing yours.

That's a KILLER looking setup you have!
 
Rivercane said:
But....I have a small tandem now that I actually really like, a Dagger Reflection 15. I put a center seat in it as well to try to pull double duty but it's too wide.
Click to expand...

You could consider the Wenonah Wilderness a solo canoe whose hull shape is similar to the Vagabond but longer and deeper. I have one in the ultralight layup and it’s a very pretty efficient paddling canoe as you are seated in a good paddling position. It was my every day boat for the coastal waters I paddle, but is now my ex girlfriend. Having paddled both I’d say the Polaris has better maneuverability, more stability and cockpit room, and still tracks well
 
Hard to say what's best for you so I'll just comment on my experience with the boats under discussion.

The Trillium is super efficient and quite a special hull. It doesn't have the greatest glide but it shoots forward with every stroke like a water bug and feels like it has almost zero resistance. Superb for covering miles...even better than a Magic for me. It's the smallest (lowest volume) boat under discussion and will be crowded with a deer but it can handle the weight (max efficient rated load is 260...it can handle 300 on rare occasions but if your load is well over 300 you need a bigger boat). If you usually paddle with a light load it's a perfect fit for your weight.

I agree that the Magic is a fine choice. It has the best glide and it's a versatile and capable boat. I've owned two and would get another.

I have a Keewaydin 15. It's super versatile. I take it when traveling and I use it in the Spring when my local river is near flood stage since it's my safest boat and still efficient enough for upstream paddling. Fine lake boat. Nice maneuverability. Can easily handle a deer. Good for napping.

I don't like NW Solo. I had one and tried hard to love it. It's stable and versatile and can handle a deer but for me it lacked personality and didn't do anything particularly well other than handle a load. Others like it and you might too. It's similar to Keewaydin 15 but I think Kee15 does everything better...and Swift quality and aesthetics just spank Northstar.

Polaris is a special boat and has a lot of glide compared to your Dagger tandem (I haven't paddled Vagabond). But if you're comfy with the Vagabond which is only average at best for capacity and stability then I think you'd appreciate a true solo.

I would never order a boat from Northstar. I've had two bad experiences with what I would call comically unacceptable quality (defects). I would only buy one that I could inspect thoroughly before buying (and even then I passed on a Firebird because I couldn't bring myself to spend $3500 on a boat with relatively crude build quality).

Not sure how you'd carry a deer. You can't put 125 pounds in front of the front thwart or behind the rear thwart so the only spot I can envision is right between your legs.

Just my two cents
 
gumpus said:
Hard to say what's best for you so I'll just comment on my experience with the boats under discussion.

The Trillium is super efficient and quite a special hull. It doesn't have the greatest glide but it shoots forward with every stroke like a water bug and feels like it has almost zero resistance. Superb for covering miles...even better than a Magic for me. It's the smallest (lowest volume) boat under discussion and will be crowded with a deer but it can handle the weight (max efficient rated load is 260...it can handle 300 on rare occasions but if your load is well over 300 you need a bigger boat). If you usually paddle with a light load it's a perfect fit for your weight.

I agree that the Magic is a fine choice. It has the best glide and it's a versatile and capable boat. I've owned two and would get another.

I have a Keewaydin 15. It's super versatile. I take it when traveling and I use it in the Spring when my local river is near flood stage since it's my safest boat and still efficient enough for upstream paddling. Fine lake boat. Nice maneuverability. Can easily handle a deer. Good for napping.

I don't like NW Solo. I had one and tried hard to love it. It's stable and versatile and can handle a deer but for me it lacked personality and didn't do anything particularly well other than handle a load. Others like it and you might too. It's similar to Keewaydin 15 but I think Kee15 does everything better...and Swift quality and aesthetics just spank Northstar.

Polaris is a special boat and has a lot of glide compared to your Dagger tandem (I haven't paddled Vagabond). But if you're comfy with the Vagabond which is only average at best for capacity and stability then I think you'd appreciate a true solo.

I would never order a boat from Northstar. I've had two bad experiences with what I would call comically unacceptable quality (defects). I would only buy one that I could inspect thoroughly before buying (and even then I passed on a Firebird because I couldn't bring myself to spend $3500 on a boat with relatively crude build quality).

Not sure how you'd carry a deer. You can't put 125 pounds in front of the front thwart or behind the rear thwart so the only spot I can envision is right between your legs.

Just my two cents
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Thank you very much for that. Great post, and very much appreciated!

After seeing a few Northstars in person I can't disagree with you on the build quality. I was fairly surprised at the 4 examples I looked over at the dealer. It's a shame because they really seem to offer the most models that I am interested in.

It's an insane amount of money for ME to shell out for a canoe, and I'd already decided if I can't see it first and have to order, I'm getting a Swift. Just have to scrape a few more shillings up to do so.

As far as the deer, that's how I've wrangled the last ones back, right in front of me. Wasn't great, but it worked. It's not a common enough occurrence really to worry too much about it to be honest.

The idea of the Trillium is definitely exciting, it's the boat I'm most intrigued by. I'd like to stay with a smallish boat for general ease of lugging around and fitting into small creeks and such. As far as capacity and physical size, I'm happy with my Vagabond in those respects.

On the Trillium, does it have enough initial stability to cast and fish from while seated without being on pins and needles?

I know that's a loaded and dumb question, but all I've been in are tandems and flat bottomed canoes. For a gauge, I find the Vagabond stable enough that I can stand up in it and do about anything I need to without having to think about it. I'm sure id warm up to it regardless, but just curious.

Thank you again for taking the time with your post. It's been a big help.
 
I'm not sure what your acceptable travel distance would be but keep a eye out in your local Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace for some good deals. A nice looking Bell Magic just popped up today on Facebook in Brevard, NC for $1800. Other fine canoes are listed regularly. You might get lucky and find one great used canoe for a really good price.
 
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SouthernKevlar said:
I'm not sure what your acceptable travel distance would be but keep a eye out in your local Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace for some good deals. A nice looking Bell Magic just popped up today on Facebook in Brevard, NC for $1800. Other fine canoes are listed regularly. You might get lucky and find one a great used canoe for a really good price.
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I saw that one! I messaged him about it to see what layup it was, waiting to hear back.
 
Rivercane - I would take a look at a Hemlock Kestrel (or even a Peregrine). I have a Kestrel and it might be good for your needs. I also have a GRB Classic...which could be worth a look. Had a Magic. It was great...just not special, to me at least.
 
Rivercane said:
Thank you very much for that. Great post, and very much appreciated!

After seeing a few Northstars in person I can't disagree with you on the build quality. I was fairly surprised at the 4 examples I looked over at the dealer. It's a shame because they really seem to offer the most models that I am interested in.

It's an insane amount of money for ME to shell out for a canoe, and I'd already decided if I can't see it first and have to order, I'm getting a Swift. Just have to scrape a few more shillings up to do so.

As far as the deer, that's how I've wrangled the last ones back, right in front of me. Wasn't great, but it worked. It's not a common enough occurrence really to worry too much about it to be honest.

The idea of the Trillium is definitely exciting, it's the boat I'm most intrigued by. I'd like to stay with a smallish boat for general ease of lugging around and fitting into small creeks and such. As far as capacity and physical size, I'm happy with my Vagabond in those respects.

On the Trillium, does it have enough initial stability to cast and fish from while seated without being on pins and needles?

I know that's a loaded and dumb question, but all I've been in are tandems and flat bottomed canoes. For a gauge, I find the Vagabond stable enough that I can stand up in it and do about anything I need to without having to think about it. I'm sure id warm up to it regardless, but just curious.

Thank you again for taking the time with your post. It's been a big help.
Click to expand...

From reading your posts I think you'd be just fine fishing from a Trillium. It's a friendly boat that won't do anything to surprise you. The shallow arch design that is so common these days is much more stable than the older shallow vees which feel a bit like teeter-totters. Flat bottom boats lack secondary stability...my Wenonah Advantage will put you on pins and needles when the wind or waves or current get big enough. But a shallow arch starts pushing back (holding you up) as you lean it a bit and if you lean more it pushes back more. Northstar mounts their seats low which helps. You can always lower it a little more if you need to but I think you'll be fine.

I've also owned Kestrel and Peregrine. They are fine boats with top notch construction quality. A Kestrel would suit you best. They are considerably less maneuverable than a Trillium so not as good for rivers or creeks; they excel as lake boats. I bought a Magic from a guy that was switching to a Kestrel to get a lighter boat and his paddling buddy got a Trillium. Trillium is a bit more versatile and handles moving water and creeks well and is still more of a lake boat than a river boat.

Cheers Rivercane!
 
Rivercane said:
I've had a couple of royalex Wenonah solos over the last several years, and spent most of that time in a Vagabond. It's served me well for general plunking around and fishing, but I'm ready to get something new and hopefully my first composite canoe.

My only real beef with the Vagabond is that it doesn't seem to have much glide/efficiency/pizazz to it. I don't mind the weight, but the floppy bottom is a little disappointing even if it's only a cosmetic thing.

So. I'm in the southeast and composite canoes aren't really a thing here. So used is a lost hope. I DO have a dealer about 3 hours away that can get the following brands:

Northstar, Wenonah, Swift, Nova Craft

The canoes I've had in mind for what I think I would like:

Northstar Trillium
Northstar Magic
Swift Keewaydin 15
Northstar Northwind Solo

My uses are almost exclusively flat water. Some of that being big open river or lake type paddling, and other being small creeks. No whitewater of any sort.

I just need a somewhat stable and efficient boat that I can cover some ground on open water without a lot of fuss.

My heart says get a Magic because it should be a ground covering machine. And I like the idea of that.

My head says one of the smaller boats may be a more sensible and more manueverable choice, and maybe easier to tame when a stiff breeze blows up.

I'm 5' 9" and weigh about 150 pounds. My usual gear load likely won't ever exceed 50 pounds. Occasionally I may toss a 125 pound deer in the boat and have to paddle home, but this won't be often enough to be a huge consideration, but it would need to possible at least.

All of the grunt will be provided by a single blade, and I'm not much on kneeling. Seated, bent shaft is how I usually roll.

I sure appreciate y'all reading, and I hope you can point me down the right path. Thank you in advance! View attachment 142087
Click to expand...
I bought a Magic a year ago. I really loved it until yesterday. I was doing a large lake crossing and leaned into a turn a bit too much. I went over quickly. I was surprised at how easy it flipped. The Magic was going to be my choice on a Mississippi River float but now I am not so sure. I am researching a more stable canoe. BTW, I am 5'6 and 140 lbs. When it flipped, it was not loaded with any gear. The lake was choppy but no whitecaps.
 
dbp05ret said:
I bought a Magic a year ago. I really loved it until yesterday. I was doing a large lake crossing and leaned into a turn a bit too much. I went over quickly. I was surprised at how easy it flipped. The Magic was going to be my choice on a Mississippi River float but now I am not so sure. I am researching a more stable canoe. BTW, I am 5'6 and 140 lbs. When it flipped, it was not loaded with any gear. The lake was choppy but no whitecaps.
Click to expand...

Tippyness and balance is a very subjective thing. I'm 6'1 and 170. I owned a Magic for many years and paddled it hundreds of miles both loaded and unloaded on calm and rough water. I paddled it for fitness and I also used it for fishing. I don't believe I ever capsized or felt in danger of doing so.

There are certainly canoes that will offer more stability than the Magic as well as canoes that will respond better to a lean so maybe the Magic isn't the boat for you. Or it might just take a bit more seat time. You said you've had it for a year but didn't mention how often you paddle.

Alan
 
Alan Gage said:
Tippyness and balance is a very subjective thing. I'm 6'1 and 170. I owned a Magic for many years and paddled it hundreds of miles both loaded and unloaded on calm and rough water. I paddled it for fitness and I also used it for fishing. I don't believe I ever capsized or felt in danger of doing so.

There are certainly canoes that will offer more stability than the Magic as well as canoes that will respond better to a lean so maybe the Magic isn't the boat for you. Or it might just take a bit more seat time. You said you've had it for a year but didn't mention how often you paddle.

Alan
Click to expand...
You are right in your observations. I have only paddled it about 30 times since I bought it last August. It was the first time on a large lake. I went out again this morning and had zero issues. Thanks for your input.
 
dbp05ret said:
You are right in your observations. I have only paddled it about 30 times since I bought it last August. It was the first time on a large lake. I went out again this morning and had zero issues. Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about it and I wasn't quite honest when I said I'd never capsized. In hot weather I'd sometimes begin or end my paddle by intentionally pushing the canoe to its limits in shallow water. I'd lean it as far as I could until it capsized. Then I'd use my paddle as a brace and see how far I could lean. Then I'd see how far I could lean while carving a turn.

It was great for cooling off and it allowed me to get a feel for just how far I could push it. It kept me relaxed when the canoe would rock back and forth in the waves because I knew it could go a lot farther and it also gave me warning that I needed to make a correction when I realized it was getting close to the danger zone.

Alan
 
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