Installing gunnels?

[ozarkpaddler1]

So, I'm about ready to install gunnels on a wood strip canoe that I am building. Plat is to glue the gunnels on with thickened epoxy. My question is - what is a good way to clamp the gunnels in place while the epoxy sets? Guess I could use C clamps but it seems like that may apply too much pressure and squeeze most of the epoxy out of the joining surfaces??? Thought about using tape but that doesn't seem like it would provide enough pressure to make the gunnels conform to the curve of the hull. What method are you using?

 

[alsg]

I held mine in place with lots and lots of C-clamps. Harbor Freight sells them on the (relatively) cheap. You might consider using bronze screws rather than glue/epoxy to hold the gunnels on because it will make repair/replacement easier. I also used a bedding compound (Dolphinite) to seal the joint between the gunnels and the hull.

 

[ozarkpaddler1]

Well, I for sure have a big pile of C clamps. I'm guessing if you used clamps you just left them a little lose, or at least not real tight? I was worried that if I didn't clamp them tight that they might allow the gunnels to slip out of their position.

 

[alsg]

Well, as I said, I didn't use epoxy -- I used screws. The bedding compound was very slippery and so it required applying a good amount of pressure. I've added a link to a photo showing how many clamps I used on my 16' canoe.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/download/file.php?id=30922

 

[memaquay]

I wouldn't overthink it. Tighten where you have to in order to conform to hull shape. If you put epoxy on the whole gunwale, there will be lots of hold, even if a couple of areas are starved or riding high. I glues the first canoe I did, but after that, always used screws.

 

[Boatman53]

I use a combination of spring clamps and small 'F' clamps. I don't glue on the gunnels.

 

[DeniseO30]

Not many people building strippers will not glue the rails on.. but if you do. use masking tape or other tape under the rail and pull it off just after the eposy sets.. you won't have a mess to clean up after it hardens. epoxy glue does NOT need tons of clamping pressure either.. I would still use screws Good luck! oh.. make sure you have the clamps (enough of them) before you start gluing..

 

[stripperguy]

The last 10 or 12 boats I've built used a full cap gunnel...not separate inwale and outwale.
Basically, a fat U-channel, using mahogany. I then put some Cabosil thickened epoxy in a baggie (thank you Alan) with a corner torn off. Using the baggie like a cake frosting bag, I squirt the epoxy in the gunnel channel, and slip the gunnel on the sheer. I usually use one or two clamps only, just to hold the gunnel down in the center to pull it into shape to match the curve of the sheer. The clamps go OVER the gunnel, holding on the hull itself. Later, I flip the boat keel up, and apply a bead of more thickened epoxy to seal any gaps between gunnel and hull. I don't want any voids where water can enter and become trapped.

Why a full cap? I don't like the cedar exposed at all. No matter how well sealed or coated, eventually the finish will get beat up and allow water to enter the edge of the cedar...

 

[BWCA66]

I always use screws but I'm using stainless steel screws, expensive but well worth it. Just pulled the gunnels off a 30+ year old canoe and the screws were as good as new.

 

[DeniseO30]

I always use screws but I'm using stainless steel screws, expensive but well worth it. Just pulled the gunnels off a 30+ year old canoe and the screws were as good as new.

I'm not seeing a lot of talk about steam bending which is a fun activity when it comes to building canoes!

 

[Jim Dodd]

Every builder seems to have their favorite method ! And I respect that !

Here's mine.

I glue and screw the inwhales and decks, and glue the outwhale.
No fasteners showing.

I also Cap the hull with the outwhale. This seals everything.

Moisture is enemy #1. It will enter and rot the gunnels..... Favorite entry points, is fasteners, and gaps between the hull and gunnels.
Moisture that pools under the decks, has rotted the stems of Countless Wood Canvas canoes ! A simple Weep hole would have greatly prolonged their lives !

Sealing the gunnels and decks with epoxy. Letting it cure, before instalation is my #2 favorite method.

The use of only screws is great, if you plan to remove the gunnels in the future. I hate to replace gunnels, that I've put so much time and effort into building !

Gluing and screwing decks and gunnels seems the best option, in my experience !

To date, I haven't needed to replaced the gunnels on any of my builds, and like to keep it that way !

 

[DeniseO30]

Yes, we all have our ways! I found that on strip canoes or wood canvas canoes the rails can be about the same the wood canvas of course needs a rabbet so that the out rail can clamp the canvas but it also covers the top of the planking which is what many of the strip boat builders like to do.

I'm in the middle of recanvassing my 15-footer and one of the mahogany out rails had a misplaced screw hole where it was starting to break. I made a piece to fit in but keep the top of the rail uncut, pictures explain it better. You will notice I did not use a 7 to 1 scarf joint, felt it wasn't necessary since there are screws to the end rail every 6 inch or so.
But do you have a rail that's broken but not quite broken apart, this is just another way that works for me. And is good way to save it and still keep the original.

The pictures make it look larger, so you have to remind yourself, we are looking at something that is only 3/4" wide and 7/8" High!

Last 2 pics just starting to re-fit the outrail.... It's just a little bit nerve-racking LOL length.

 

[BWCA66]

I'm not seeing a lot of talk about steam bending which is a fun activity when it comes to building canoes!

About the only thing I've had to steam is the ash stems on a couple of strippers. I'm thinking of going stemless, thanks to jim, on the next one so probably won't steam anything.

 

[Cruiser]

Just did that exact thing .... I use C clamps but you don't need much pressure with epoxy, just enough to close the joint. Use alternate directions on the clamps to keep the pressure on the gunnel equal.

I have to carry my canoes, so I make sure anything I add is well worth the weight. I don't use screws or spacers, they just don't make sense to me for tripping. I put a 45 degree chamfer on the inner gunwale ... I think gunnels are typically way over built for purpose, these ones are on a Freedom solo and are 5/16" x 5/8" ... once shaped and sanded they are quite stiff and light.

Brian

 

[Jim Dodd]

Hi Brian

Spacers allow me to tie things to the gunnels, and also give me a wider inwhale, so I can hang my seats from them, without the extra weght of a solid inwhale. Not to mention the scuppers allow draining the water from inside the hull, when portaging.

The screws are as much about making it easy to install the inwhale, as adding strength !
I DRY fit the decks and inwhales with screws. Then it's a breeze to install them, while the inwhales are all lathered up with filled epoxy ! I don't have to worry about the inwhale slipping out of place.

Simply fasten the inwhales in place with a cordless drill. So easy ! Then come back with a few clamps where needed.

I don't need as many clamps. I actually do both sides the same day.

Jim

 

[DeniseO30]

Hi Brian

Spacers allow me to tie things to the gunnels, and also give me a wider inwhale, so I can hang my seats from them, without the extra weght of a solid inwhale. Not to mention the scuppers allow draining the water from inside the hull, when portaging.

The screws are as much about making it easy to install the inwhale, as adding strength !
I DRY fit the decks and inwhales with screws. Then it's a breeze to install them, while theinwhales are all lathered up with filled epoxy ! I don't have to worry about the inwhale slipping out of place.

Simply fasten the inwhales in place with a cordless drill. So easy ! Then come back with a few clamps where needed.

I don't need as many clamps. I actually do both sides the same day.

Jim

Jim, and scuppered rails make it easier to drain the boat just by rolling it over! Capped rails always trap some of the water when you try that until it's completely upside down.

 

[Cruiser]

Jim ... that wasn't a response to your post, just observations and what i do ... screws add extra weight and I really would question that the end result is stronger than epoxying inner and outters the way i do. I would concede that the scuppers would provide easy tie downs, that solid gunnels don't provide (tie downs would be easy to add, but I generally don't seem to require them much).

Jim and Denise ... you both suggest that unscuppered gunnels collect water ... if you read the post it mentioned that there is an inside 45 degree bevel, there is not any place on the inner gunnel to collect the water ( no flat area) ... when the boat is turned over the water flows out over the chamfer

Depending on how the boat will be used, design considerations change, If I was just carrying the canoe from the car to the launch, I might make one set of decisions, if I was tripping and carrying a canoe for a kilometer, those same decisions would change. In my case, I trip with the boat, which includes portaging some longer trails ... if I can save a few pounds and not compromise the canoe, I am likely to lean towards saving weight.

There isn't any "one" right way to build a canoe, when you build it yourself, you get to customize it to suit your purpose ...

Brian

 

[DeniseO30]

Jim ... that wasn't a response to your post, just observations and what i do ... screws add extra weight and I really would question that the end result is stronger than epoxying inner and outters the way i do. I would concede that the scuppers would provide easy tie downs, that solid gunnels don't provide (tie downs would be easy to add, but I generally don't seem to require them much).

Jim and Denise ... you both suggest that unscuppered gunnels collect water ... if you read the post it mentioned that there is an inside 45 degree bevel, there is not any place on the inner gunnel to collect the water ( no flat area) ... when the boat is turned over the water flows out over the chamfer

Depending on how the boat will be used, design considerations change, If I was just carrying the canoe from the car to the launch, I might make one set of decisions, if I was tripping and carrying a canoe for a kilometer, those same decisions would change. In my case, I trip with the boat, which includes portaging some longer trails ... if I can save a few pounds and not compromise the canoe, I am likely to lean towards saving weight.

There isn't any "one" right way to build a canoe, when you build it yourself, you get to customize it to suit your purpose ...

Brian

We restored an old, I think it was 1912 Old Town HW 15 ft it had rail caps held down with escutcheon pins (little round headed nails) I like how the rail caps came together on point of the deck.
It's all good!!

 

[Alan Gage]

I always glued my rails on because I didn't want the extra weight of the screws. Then I rebuilt an old Penobscot and after pulling out all the fasteners for the rails and hangers I weighed them....under 1 pound. I decided to screw the rails on the next boat I did and I doubt I'll go back to gluing. So much faster and cleaner.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

Hi Brian !

No offense taken, or given.
I just wanted to give more thoughts to my reasonings. That ! I believe was the original reason for the post !

I've been very impressed with your beautifully built canoes, and hold your opinions in high regard ! Even though we may differ at times ! And yes you are right ! There are many Right ways to build a canoe !

Now, more thoughts, and questions.

Brian. Do you hang your seats, from the inwhales ? Guessing not, as the 45 degree angle, of the bottom of the inwhale might be a challenge.

What has always bothered me about just gluing the gunnels, on a stripper, is you are relying on the Soft Cedar between two layers of glass, to hold things together. The screw method, holds both sides of the hull , in my case to the inwhale.
Since I hang my seats from the inwhale, and I'm well over 200#, I need the security the screws provide.