Carbon / Kevlar BLACK Pearl

[Jim Dodd]

Well I've Dilly Dallied around long enough ! Time to Dive into another Composite build !

First off I want to say Fools Jump in where Wise men fear to tread. And I'm about to take a leap !

Friday, Kevlar, and S-glass arrived from Sweets. I'm very happy so far ! Sweets has been in business a long time, and they know what they are doing ! Their shipping is quite similar to RAKA's but they stock S-glass, and Kevlar in the sizes I wanted !

Earlier this week, I laid Window Heat Shrink film on Pearl, She will serve as my Male mold. Confused ?
The film will serve as a release agent between the two hulls ! I didn't use a blow drier to shrink the film. In the Past, it didn't work well, and so I'm taking my chances. The problem with the plastic film, it doesn't stick to the hull, used as the mold, in the Tumblehome area. It's a pain.
Thus the cloth doesn't willingly follow the Tumble home ! Well Jim ! Why don't you use a paint on release agent ? Glad you asked ! I've heard of people having trouble, getting hulls to release ! Plus, I don't want to deal with removing the release agent, from my plug (Pearl), and I don't want to have to remove it from the inside of Black Pearl ! Even though, a release agent, such as Partal, would probably work !

My plan. Untried, is to wet out the Kevlar, on the Starboard side of the hull. Then,TILT Pearl, and enlist gravity, to hold the Kevlar tight to her tumblehome. For This I attached my Trusty extra legs, so I can tilt Pearl ! The same legs I use when sanding !
I have a back up plan, and that is to clamp some plastic strips to force the wetted Kevlar tight to the mold. I probably will use both plans !

As I said, I'm Only wetting out the Starboard side. Once it has set, say 6 hours or more. I will wet out the Port side, and tilt it the other way, while the resin cures.
I will leave the ends open, for now, but will glass them shut. To remove the hull, I will just slice the ends. I put a couple of layers of Friction tape to provided a little barrier, so that when I cut the ends, I don't scar Pearl.

If all goes as planned, I'll add the Carbon.

I was thinking of glassing it today, but Chickened out ! Maybe tomorrow.

A few pics














I

 

[Jim Dodd]

I forgot to mention, for those keeping track of costs, I Estimate about $426 for cloth, including Carbon, Kevlar, S-glass, and one layer of 6 oz E-glass.

The plan is to again make a Cedar insert, for the inside. Probably 1/8" thick.

Jim

 

[dougd]

Although I'm not a boat builder I have been waiting for this! Good luck Jim! I've found that new plans often work out for the better! God knows I've done enough stupid stuff but often it works out just the way I thought it would. Looking forward to seeing how this all goes!

dougd

 

[Cruiser]

Following Jim ... be nice if you could figure out a way to encapsulate that 1/8" cedar insert as part of the build, probably save a lot of work.


Brian

 

[stripperguy]

Jim,
1st, a couple notes about Partal. It did function well for me as a release agent, but my particular hull had that crease that made for difficult release. On a typical tumblehome hull, like yours, it should release much easier. And clean up?? Partal is water soluble, a quick scrubbing with a stiff brush and water is all that's needed.

What is the material you're using to hold the Kevlar in place? I like that idea, anxious to see how it works for you.
Of course, I'll be following along. Being homeless, I'll have to build vicariously through you for a while!!

 

[Jim Dodd]

Following Jim ... be nice if you could figure out a way to encapsulate that 1/8" cedar insert as part of the build, probably save a lot of work.


Brian

Hi Brian On a Male mold, the insert would leave a bump. I'll install it after the hull is off the mold. The insert is pretty easy as it's only 1/8" thick, and no bead and coving !!! Just edge glue the strips This will be my third using the cedar insert. Actually the insert is fun ! It strips up in a matter of minutes, and I use a Batten to cut the shape.







Of couse you could strip an insert up stapleless, but you know me !

We have some weather coming in, so I'll be delayed a few days.

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

What is the material you're using to hold the Kevlar in place? I like that idea, anxious to see how it works for you.
Of course, I'll be following along. Being homeless, I'll have to build vicariously through you for a while!!

The plastic is Painters edging. I saw it a few years ago, and thought It might come in handy. It's meant to take the place of masking tape, when you paint around trim. No adhesive on it.

I still need to play with Partal. The last time I Played with it, some came off with the test piece, and some stayed on the mold. I know it's water soluble, but I'm worried if I left any residue, that it might inhibit epoxy from bonding to the hull ! Again I need to play with it ! The test piece I played with had several coats, of Partal, that I had brushed on. Maybe a little too thick ?

Being Homeless makes getting a home a lot sweeter ! I hope the new home, will have work space for some more canoe building !!

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

Things are thawing out here in Iowa, and so I Cranked up the heat in the shop, to about 75F, Monday nite.
Decided to glass one side of the Kevlar layer, and tilt Pearl up on her side. I wanted to enlist gravity in order to keep the wetted Kevlar tight against the tumblehome area. I had planned to use clamps and some plastic edging.

So yesterday morning i Wet out the Kevlar, on the Starboard side, from the keel, to the Shear. Plan was to let it cure to tack free, and then do the same to the Portside later that day. I did ! Tilting the hull, and the use of the plastic edging worked great !

The Window film, in my experience has two flaws. It wrinkles, and doesn't stick to the hull. The Plus side, is it allows the finished hull to be easily removed, without leaving residue on the hull, or the mold. Tipping the hull and the plastic edging, was a big help >
Today I wet out the Carbon cloth. So far so good. No tilting, but I did use the edging and clamps

Amount of resin used to wet out both layers, was 72 oz. I love the foam Cigar rollers. they easily move resin from one place to another, without distorting the weave in the cloth. I could tell, where the Kevlar was properly wetted, it was harder with the Carbon.
Next step is to wet out the S-glass.

Here's some pics.

 

[Cruiser]

Every time you do this Jim, I want to go out and try it ... this time looks to be going much better than the original.

Brian

 

[Jim Dodd]

Pleased with Black Pearl , but I still have plenty of opportunity to mess it up !

Love my strippers, until it's time to Portage.
I would suggest anyone wanting to try this method, go with a 8 or 9 oz Kevlar, and skip the Carbon fiber. It will keep the cost down, and be just as durable.

S-glass tomorrow, For this I have some of RAKA's UV-inhibited resin.

Jim

 

[latremorej]

Nice Jim! I am also following along.

Jason

 

[dogbrain]

Pleased with Black Pearl , but I still have plenty of opportunity to mess it up !

Love my strippers, until it's time to Portage.
I would suggest anyone wanting to try this method, go with a 8 or 9 oz Kevlar, and skip the Carbon fiber. It will keep the cost down, and be just as durable.

S-glass tomorrow, For this I have some of RAKA's UV-inhibited resin.

Jim

Hey Jim, If you don't mind, give us a rundown of your layup and why you chose what you did and why you'd recommend skipping the carbon fiber. That's going to be a nice boat. I can't wait to find out the finished weight.

Mark

 

[Jim Dodd]

Hey Jim, If you don't mind, give us a rundown of your layup and why you chose what you did and why you'd recommend skipping the carbon fiber. That's going to be a nice boat. I can't wait to find out the finished weight.

Mark

Hi Mark

Once I had Pearl covered with the Window film. I laid on the 5 oz Kevlar, That took 36 oz of epoxy. Let it harden, past the tacky stage. Then came with the 6 oz Carbon Fiber, that also took 36 oz of resin. Everything looked great !

Today I laid up the S-glass. This for some reason, didn't want to stick to the Carbon. It took 54 oz, of the same resin I've been using. As I was rolling on the epoxy. . I had air pockets all over the hull 3" diameter, and smaller ! I didn't give up, I kept at it with the Cigar roller !
Not until the resin was getting sticky, did the two, Carbon Fiber, and S-glass adhere to each other. Boy was I sweating it !

I'm still trying to figure out the problem ! I thought first, that I should have rolled a fill coat on the Carbon. I still think I should have. But that really doesn't explain the bonding problem between the Carbon and S-glass ?

The S-glass is tightly woven, but on my Test samples, it wet out fine ! I don't know if that is the problem ? The more I think about it. I really think the air pockets, were the problem, because of the real tight weave of the S-glass ! I really had to apply a lot of slow heavy pressure to get the air out !

I survived it !

My first two composites were Kevlar. I like being able to see the cloth actually Wet out. Both Kevlars were heavier cloth. The first was RAKA's 9 oz. It's not woven, but stitched. It was a real Bugger to cut ! The second was Noah's 8 oz Woven Kevlar. I like it the best, as I think I used less resin, and it was easier to cut.

I could save one layer, by using heavier Kevlar, and skipping the Carbon. I would add more layers on the inside in strategic places, to get more stiffness.

I'm resting now, and soon, I will go down and apply fill coats, using RAKA's UV-inhibited epoxy.

I'm Stressed ! Need to go for a Paddle ! Still Too much Ice here !

I wished I had taken pics, but I didn't have a camera ! Sorry !


Jim

 

[BWCA66]

Jim, why let each layer harden before you do the next layer?

 

[Mrindy]

Looks great!! Ive never used satin weave. Did you notice any difference with drapability, wet out or anything else with the Kevlar?

 

[Jim Dodd]

Jim, why let each layer harden before you do the next layer?

You have a point ! Especially with the stiffer fabrics !
I tried years ago, to put cloth on a hull that was still tacky. Not good ! I might get by with the stiffer stuff, and if I did it right away.
On Nokomis, I tried wetting out two layers, . It worked, but not the best. Especially with the carbon.

 

[goonstroke]

Very exciting! When people build strippers it mostly sounds like plowing a field, but composites are heroic!

I've never worked with carbon, and the more I read, the more I think I'm not ever going to work with it.

What s-glass is it? Is it the 6522 4oz plain weave? I need some glass, and some warm weather.

 

[BWCA66]

You have a point ! Especially with the stiffer fabrics !
I tried years ago, to put cloth on a hull that was still tacky. Not good ! I might get by by with the stiffer stuff, and if I did it right away.
On Nokomis, I tried wetting out two layers, . It worked, but not the best. Especially with the carbon.

We do 3 layers, one right after the other. Seems t be working out well.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Looks great!! Ive never used satin weave. Did you notice any difference with drapability, wet out or anything else with the Kevlar?

Thanks !
I liked how it handled and worked. Wet out was not a problem !

 

[Jim Dodd]

Very exciting! When people build strippers it mostly sounds like plowing a field, but composites are heroic!

I've never worked with carbon, and the more I read, the more I think I'm not ever going to work with it.

What s-glass is it? Is it the 6522 4oz plain weave? I need some glass, and some warm weather.

Some might consider it Crazy ! I'm starting to lean that way !
What I bought from Sweet's is 6580 x 50" 6 oz. It's very tightly woven, and all though it wet out fine, the weave wouldn't allow air to pass through. I kept working it, with a foam roller, until I could work the air, down to the shearline.

I have a problem with tiny air pockets, that are my Fault ! Had I applied one fill coat over the Carbon, that would have eliminated the problem !