Affordable solo canoe

[jish1969]

Hi all,
I just wanted to gather some opinions on what you think the best solo canoe is for under $1000. I always keep my eye on craigslist for an Old Town Pack, but aside from that there is still the Discovery 119 kicking around online. Is there any difference between the Discovery 119 and the Guide 119, or are they the same boat? Any thoughts on the Old Town Next? I like its profile, but it would definitely need a new seat. Ive been wanting a solo canoe for Cayuga lake, where I live, and for canoe camping the Adirondacks, Essex chain, Long Lake etc... Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

 

[Alan Gage]

For a $1000 max budget the options are almost limitless if you're looking on the used market. $1000 should be able to get you a lightweight composite hull if you're diligent about checking for sale sites and willing to move fast when something good shows up. I have no experience with pack boats or the Adirondacks so I'll leave "what hull is best" to others. I'd personally want something a little longer, especially if I was going to be tripping with it.

Alan

 

[Steve in Idaho]

About 7 years ago, IIRC, I saw a nearly pristine Bell Black/Gold Merlin II on CL for $900. No - I didn't buy it because I didn't know nuthin' about solo canoes at the time. Since then, I've seen a couple of nice Wenonah kev rendezvous go for less than that. A couple of nice little Mad River kev solos have gone by for under $600 here as well in the last few years. And this isn't even canoe country. I paid $250 for my Dagger Sojourn - which I still think is a darn nice canoe. There used to be a guy from NY on the bushcrafting forum who used a kev Wilderness Chesapeake (known as a rec kayak, but really a decent though short decked canoe IMO) as his pack canoe for Adirondacks trips. I don't know what he paid for his, but my wife's came to us used for $150. Pretty smart fella, IMO, BTW.

What's best? Depends on what wanders by your way on the used market. But if you practice a little patience, you can do far better than the OT Pack, Disco, Guide, or the Next for the same money or less. If you have no patience, the Next at least has a decent shape....but it's way heavy for it's size.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Weight to me is a big concern. If the canoe is heavy, you won't want to use it as much. I find that true with the canoes I build.

A $1,000 should buy a canoe to fit your needs. Keep an eye out for brand names, and especially look for age, condition, and weight.

Good luck !

Jim

 

[Robin]

I saw a nice older Mad River solo kevlar canoe on Paddling.net classified last Saturday for $550, I missed it by hours. It was in Rochester NY, not far from you. Craigslist and P.nett are very good sources to watch.

 

[Guest]

I picked up a Mohawk solo 13 for $350. Solo 13s and 14 are really not bad boats for royalex ones. The 13 is quite lite-35#? They don't paddle as nice as my composite boats, but not bad. An old town pack is not nearly as nice paddling a boat.
Turtle

 

[yellowcanoe]

Hi all,
I just wanted to gather some opinions on what you think the best solo canoe is for under $1000. I always keep my eye on craigslist for an Old Town Pack, but aside from that there is still the Discovery 119 kicking around online. Is there any difference between the Discovery 119 and the Guide 119, or are they the same boat? Any thoughts on the Old Town Next? I like its profile, but it would definitely need a new seat. Ive been wanting a solo canoe for Cayuga lake, where I live, and for canoe camping the Adirondacks, Essex chain, Long Lake etc... Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

The Pack is 33 lbs the Disco 119 is 57
I wouldn't want that or the Next over 49 lbs. they just gave the hull weight excluding the seat
Adirondack boats are lighter and shorter than boats you'd see in the BWCA as some of the portages are squiggly and there often is some bush whacking
Something along 15 feet would do though 14 and 13 would work
The big unanswered question is do you sit or kneel?
If you do not kneel a pack canoe makes sense with a low seat. Pack canoes have about an inch less depth midships to allow this. The big big q is Cayuga. That's one rough lake. I've taught on it and canoes with standard height seats often dump their paddlers in the three foot rollers that can develop
That Lake is over 40 miles long and some 8 across or so

 

[jish1969]

I'm pretty comfortable sitting or kneeling, but I would prefer a saddle for a solo canoe. I got the chance today to take a Grumman Solo 129 on a test ride and I really liked the responsiveness of it. Very fast and turns on a dime. I couldn't get a full lean going because the canal was filled with goose crap and I felt a little squirrely at first. Its in near perfect condition and I can get it for half the price of a new one so I'm really thinking I might bite on it. Has anyone else played with the Grumman Solos?

 

[stripperguy]

I'm surprised that Alan and Jim didn't mention this, but I certainly will...
If you have a little space to work in, and the skills to walk upright, you could easily build your own stripper.
A strip built pack boat could weigh as little as a composite hull, and it could cost as little as $500 to build!!
A typical first time build might take 60 hours, or roughly 18 televised baseball games!
You would get exactly the hull you want, rather than catching whatever flies by in Craigslist.

You could be paddling something like this:



Or maybe like this:

 

[yellowcanoe]

I'm pretty comfortable sitting or kneeling, but I would prefer a saddle for a solo canoe. I got the chance today to take a Grumman Solo 129 on a test ride and I really liked the responsiveness of it. Very fast and turns on a dime. I couldn't get a full lean going because the canal was filled with goose crap and I felt a little squirrely at first. Its in near perfect condition and I can get it for half the price of a new one so I'm really thinking I might bite on it. Has anyone else played with the Grumman Solos?

well fast is relative. a sub 13 foot boat is relatively slow per se.. Theoretical hull speed =1.55 x the sq root of the waterline length. But will you notice all by yourself? Maybe not
I have been wanting to paddle that short Grumman. There is one nearby but the owners aren't too friendly.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

There is "slow", and there is piggish. One will lose races or possible cost you valuable (or even critical) time - the other will lose your interest entirely, more than likely. I don't know which heading that little Grumman falls under. My wife's 12' Chesapeake actually has more like an 11' waterline. It is theoretically slow (which assumes the application of a good "engine"), but it paddles very easily and has very good glide. When I'm in it, I notice the speed limitation but I don't care because it handles nicely and is very pleasant to paddle. When she's in it, she's going faster than she can go by herself in most longer boats. It's all about the hull shape. The 13' Navarro Legacy was 39" wide with a flat bottom. It was piggish.

 

[Jim Dodd]

A typical first time build might take 60 hours, or roughly

You must have a Superman cape hidden under your seat, or that's a miss print ! HA !

I would guess a first time build, if you started bare bones, from plans, cut the forms, make a strongback, cut strips, set everything up, strip up the hull, pull staples, scrape and sand the outside, glass the outside, so on and so on, you would be at least 250 hours, and you'd be humping it pretty hard !

If time is worth anything, not mentioning equipment, supplies, and materials, you'd be way ahead of the game to go out and buy new !

If I could build a decent stripper, In 60hrs, I'd go into business !

Jim

 

[dogbrain]

You must have a Superman cape hidden under your seat, or that's a miss print ! HA !

I would guess a first time build, if you started bare bones, from plans, cut the forms, make a strongback, cut strips, set everything up, strip up the hull, pull staples, scrape and sand the outside, glass the outside, so on and so on, you would be at least 250 hours, and you'd be humping it pretty hard !

If time is worth anything, not mentioning equipment, supplies, and materials, you'd be way ahead of the game to go out and buy new !

If I could build a decent stripper, In 60hrs, I'd go into business !

Jim

I'd say that I have way more than 250 hours into my boat for sure, maybe close to 400 or more if you include all the reading and online research, but who's counting. Granted, many of those hours were spent trying to figure things out for the first time, especially for a non woodworker. Just trying to figure out which tool to buy, to do something I've never done was time consuming. I'm sure I can do my next boat in half that time or less now that I have all the tools, jigs, knowledge and experience. The next boat will probably cost me half too. My wife asked if I am going to build another one and my answer was that building only one would be a waste of all that time I spent learning how to build the first one.

Mark

 

[Jim Dodd]

I'd say that I have way more than 250 hours into my boat for sure, maybe close to 400 or more if you include all the reading and online research, but who's counting. Granted, many of those hours were spent trying to figure things out for the first time, especially for a non woodworker. Just trying to figure out which tool to buy, to do something I've never done was time consuming. I'm sure I can do my next boat in half that time or less now that I have all the tools, jigs, knowledge and experience. The next boat will probably cost me half too. My wife asked if I am going to build another one and my answer was that building only one would be a waste of all that time I spent learning how to build the first one.

Mark

I view the experience of learning to build a canoe, to learning to ride a bike. You don't stop after you learn how !

Jim

 

[jish1969]

Well a couple solos came up on Craigslist, but were out of my price range. There was a Blackhawk Zephyr that I really liked, but needed a good d eal of work and the seller wanted too much so I had to pass. The Grumman was nice and nimble, but 48 lbs did feel like it was going to wear on me after a while. While searching Craigslist at work I came upon an Old Town Pack for a song that was just posted, so I took a look the next day. It was in decent condition, just a few dents in the royalex that needed attention, and the seller was negotiable so I bot on it. I immediately ordered new decals and partite adhesive from Old Town and repaired the dents and have had it out twice now. First impressions are that is a breeze to portage, but definitely a touch slow. I have to either buy or fabricate a yoke as the seat and the thwart are not in good balance points, then I can portage it the 3 miles from my house to Dryden Lake with ease. I am happy with it though, and in the short time I've had it has increased my love for the solitude of canoeing solo even more. Im going to hold on to the Pack for a couple years and save up for a Bell or a Curtis solo, but for now I am on the water and happy.

 

[Guest]

Have fun. I have moved the seats foreward in 2 old town packs. It improved the trim,and stability. I don't know why they put the seat so far back.
Turtle

 

[Guest]

"I am on the water and happy."

Say no more. You have there as good a motto, mantra, philosophy of life, goal, achievement, conclusion, etc., as one is likely to find in this life. Good on ya.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Solo portage yoke sources ( though some here have made their own.. I don't know where the threads went)
This is a plan http://.paddlinglight.com/product/so...ans-portaging/

these are sources for clamp on yokes too but they don't in my experience stay put well on vinyl clad gunwales.
https://www.boundarywaterscatalog.co...solo-yoke-6724

Unless you drive keeper bolts with protruding heads through the gunwales fore and aft of the clamp ( not through the yoke,.you want to remove it!).. and then try not to knuckle whack.

Or just take two paddles.( you need a spare anyway) Make your yoke like this..

http://www.paddling.net/sameboat/archives/sameboat842.html

then you are portaging something that needs to be portaged anyway

 

[jish1969]

Well now I've gone and done it...I just had to keep looking on CL, for friends, I would tell myself. I just came home with a Curtis Solo that I could not pass up for the money, gunwales rotted out and no seat or thwarts, just the carry handles. A quick email to Dave Curtis with the serial # and asking for specs for measuring and he tells me I just bought a Blue Gill, 14'6 long, and to bring it by the shop and he will measure and cut everything for me and I can put it back together at home. The wife was less than thrilled, but after promising to unload the OT Pack as soon as I can she was happy that I found a nice little restoration project for myself. I will put some pics up tomorrow; even though its in disrepair, its beautiful.

 

[Guest]

I just came home with a Curtis Solo that I could not pass up for the money, gunwales rotted out and no seat or thwarts, just the carry handles. A quick email to Dave Curtis with the serial # and asking for specs for measuring and he tells me I just bought a Blue Gill, 14'6 long,

The wife was less than thrilled, but after promising to unload the OT Pack as soon as I can she was happy that I found a nice little restoration project for myself. I will put some pics up tomorrow; even though its in disrepair, its beautiful.

When I first read Curtis Solo, especially coming from an OT Pack, my first thought was uh oh. Some of the Curtis solos were a tad on the twitchy side, with a 25 inch waterline. I know that some folks can manage that, but for me it would be a swimming platform.

Curtis Canoe Specialists prose and specs on the Blue Gill:

A larger version on the Lady Bug, the Blue Gill is either a solo sporting canoe for fishing and birdwatching, or a sport canoe for larger paddlers. For those who require a stable platform to conduct other activities this canoe is very firm at rest.
It is surprisingly fast and easy to paddle and maneuvers well.
It’s 29 ½ inch waterline width inspires confidence in those who might be timid in a narrower canoe.
A Blue Gill with a 200 pound paddler aboard will perform in a freestyle mode in a similar fashion to a Lady Bug with a 125 pound paddler.

Specs
Length: 14 feet 6 inches

Hull widths:
At gunwales 27 ½
Maximum 31
At 4 inch waterline 29 ½

Depths:
Bow 16 ½
Center 12 ½
Stern 15

Weights
Fiberglass 44 lbs
Kevlar 35 lbs

Capacities
Maximum 400 lbs
Efficient 200 – 275 lbs

As a replacement for the OT Pack I think you have found a winner with a pedigree. Mighty nice of Curtis to size and cut the replacement parts needed.