Best canoe dog for wolf protection

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Many folk round here have Pyrenees mountain dogs for herd protection but I doubt one could take on a pack but dogs like that were bred to fend off wolves, lots of fur around the neck for protection. The Churchill study centre always has at least one large malamute on sentry duty against polar bear incursions. With both these examples I suspect the aim is to make things difficult enough to persuade predators to go elsewhere.

Dogs on chains is a common issue with wolves and bears killing dogs. Fence your lot or bring your dog inside. Electric fencing is so cheap I don't understand why it is not more common on cottage lots.

We get the feeling that we see less wildlife when we bring Holly along. Never had any trouble from wolves or bears on trips. At night she sleeps inside or just at the door on a long leash tied around my ankle or foot. I soon get used to her presence and know where she is and what she is up to. I always carry bangers and spray just in case.

 

[hidden_lo]

the only thing a solid dog would get you is time. you would need to be a team and you would need to be armed and ready. there are many dog breeds with a good fighting/hunting instinct. Any dogs used for bear. but, again you would need to be ready to shoot while your dog does his part or your dog will be toast. that said, Wolves rarely attack humans

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

This topic is, of course, somewhat hypothetical. It's not about whether any of us are actually afraid of wolves in the wild. It's like any of our discussions of the best specialized tool or piece of equipment for wilderness travel, whether we really need such a tool or not. This is about the best specialized dog to kill a wolf.

Wolves kill for a living.

Yes, but they don't fight to the death for a living. When alone, they select smaller and weaker prey or large herbivores. In a pack, they will take on a moose or even a bear.

The wolf is a wilderness survival jack of all trades. He does every survival thing very well -- hunting, stalking, killing, retreating, and living in snow and bitter cold. But he's not the best at any of these things. Dogs can be bred with better noses: the bloodhound. Dogs can be bred to run faster: the greyhound. Dogs can be bred to carry heavier burdens for travel or war: from the Greco-Roman Molossus to the modern Mastiffs. And dogs can be bred to fight to the death better: the modern pit fighting dog.

I am very impressed by the observations and arguments of posters on the internet who seem to be legitimate experts on high-end dog fighting (illegal almost everywhere in the West). These events are all about money -- betting BIG money on winning dogs. There has been a long evolution of selective breeding, fueled by big gambling money, to achieve the ultimate pit fighting dogs. The argument is that if wolves were the best one-on-one fighters, then the world's top fighting dogs would look like wolves. They don't -- at all.

American Pit Bull Terrier

Tosa Inu

Bully Kutta

More to the empirical point and not just logical argumentation, these experienced dog fight experts say they have witnessed many "exhibitions" between wolves and fighting dogs in the pits over many years. Lovers of canine bloodsport have paid to watch this very match-up from time immemorial. They say the the modern pit fighting dogs always win against a wolf, and win quickly. Keep in mind that the wolf has to play by the fighting dog rules; he is confined in the pit and can't run away from the pit dog's relentless attacks and non-stop, hour-after-hour aggression.

I accept the argument that the lone wolf, bred mainly to eat and survive, would simply run away from the aggression of a top-level fighting dog if the fight took place in the wilderness. The wolf is genetically programmed to stay alive and probably to avoid serious injury. Otherwise, a pit fighter would seriously injure him even if it didn't kill him. Of course, the pit fighter probably doesn't have the skills to hunt and survive for two weeks in the wilderness. He's not a jack-of-all-trades master like the wolf, but he is the Darwinian best one-on-one fighting canine.

Here is a video in which an LGD of the Caucasian/Ovcharka type kills two wolves, although parts of it appear staged.

There are quite a few videos on the internet of pit bulls and other fighting dogs hunting and fighting big wild boars.

 

[lowangle al]

That guy who shot three bears defending his dog would be a law breaker in Alaska. Up here you are required to salvage an animal shot in defence of life or property. On a grizzly this would be the hide with the claws on and possibly the skull. Then you must turn them over to the state. This can really screw up a hunt, changing your priority from hunting to getting the bear out.


If that ever happened to me I would not be taking a dog on any more trips. I think there is more than bad luck going on here, maybe a happy trigger finger.

 

[Guest]

That guy who shot three bears defending his dog would be a law breaker in Alaska. Up here you are required to salvage an animal shot in defence of life or property. On a grizzly this would be the hide with the claws on and possibly the skull. Then you must turn them over to the state. This can really screw up a hunt, changing your priority from hunting to getting the bear out.

And old rancher out west introduced me to the 3S exemption to such requirements:

Shoot. Shovel. Shut your mouth.

 

[Canotrouge]

That guy who shot three bears defending his dog would be a law breaker in Alaska. Up here you are required to salvage an animal shot in defence of life or property. On a grizzly this would be the hide with the claws on and possibly the skull. Then you must turn them over to the state. This can really screw up a hunt, changing your priority from hunting to getting the bear out.


If that ever happened to me I would not be taking a dog on any more trips. I think there is more than bad luck going on here, maybe a happy trigger finger.

Same here in the Yukon, you would be in real big trouble, that is guaranteed!!

 

[Canotrouge]

And old rancher out west introduced me to the 3S exemption to such requirements:

Shoot. Shovel. Shut your mouth.

The problem with that idiot, is he forgot about one of the "S" Shut your mouth!!

 

[Waterdog]

I paddle the Northern routes with a 90 lb. chessie. She's strong but wouldn't stand a chance. I have reason to believe she was stalked on at least two trips. The only BWCA wolf I actually saw was much larger than my dog. I was there last week for the first time without her and never even heard a wolf. Tomorrow I'll have her along for 4 days in ADK (no wolves but coyotes). Her and I would most likely discourage coyotes, but she'll be leashed inside the ADK shelter when I'm in my bag. In PA she has run off bears on local day hikes and generally ignored coyotes. Copper is too big to be the ideal canoe dog for several reasons. I can't imagine traveling wolf country with a dog large enough to defend against a wolf. What size canoe would be needed?

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

90 lb. chessie. She's strong but wouldn't stand a chance. . . . I can't imagine traveling wolf country with a dog large enough to defend against a wolf.

Oh, goodness, a retriever. They can't win a fight against a slipper or tennis ball. Goldens were what I had.

Packing food for any dog is one of the main reasons I never considered taking any of my dogs on overnight canoe trips, even when I was young and strong.

American Pit Bulls would fit in a canoe. They range from 30 to 70 pounds.

Alan Gage voiced a concern about the temperament of a fighting dog. I don't have any personal knowledge, but the people who claim to know say that high-end fighting dogs have been bred not only to fight to the death, but not to bite a human. This is because there are three humans in the pit during a fight: each dog's handler and a referee. The dogs may fight for hours and have to be separated from aggressive, snarling "clinches" dozens of times during a fight. If they bite a person during these separations they are disqualified. Because of that, the big money gamblers who bet on the biter will be furious. Because of that, the biting dog will probably be put to death after the match. So, the high-end, highly trained fighters are supposedly very gentle with humans. It is the low-end Pit Bulls raised and trained poorly, and possibly abused, by Joe Sixpack that occasionally make news by attacking people. So they say.

The Tibetan Mastiff was used to protect nomads against wolves, bears and tigers. They would need a canot du maitre.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Oh, goodness, a retriever. They can't win a fight against a slipper or tennis ball. Goldens were what I had.

Chessies are of a different temperament. Goldens are doofus. Every animal in their view is their friend. They would try to bring the wolf or bear to meet us..
The porkies and the skunks my Golden met did not reciprocate in friendship. I was always happier canoe tripping without worrying about that big naive dog.

The moose she chased ..well it was leaving fast thankfully and for once she listened to the command Come.

 

[ppine]

Wolves are formidable killers.
Look . at the history of livestock herding and sheep herding in particular. Humans have used domesticated dogs to protect livestock for 10,000 year. A few of the breeds are listed above. Great Pyrenees are commonly used to protect sheep in the western US. Mastiffs and Cano Curso dogs are other examples. Sometimes they wear spiked collars to protect them from wolf attacks.

 

[ppine]

Tibetan Mastiffs are still used in Asia to protect livestock from wolves.

 

[GeoBoy]

This breed might be effective against wolves Karelian Bear Dog.

 

[ppine]

I travel with dogs in the bush partly for company and partly as my early warning system. That is exactly what Natives do. Your dog only needs to sound the alarm so you have some warning. A Border Collie and a .44 mag is better than living with a Tibetan Mastiff or some other large, nasty protection dog that does not dig people.

 

[Gamma1214]

A Border Collie and a .44 mag is better than living with a Tibetan Mastiff or some other large, nasty protection dog that does not dig people.

I could care less whether the dog likes me... By the time I carry enough food to feed some of these beasts I'd be triple or quadruple carrying every portage!

I wonder if Mem's big, white cat would work on wolves...

 

[kahel]

like him?!



six and a half kilos of unbridled strength, endurance and meanness. Will that be enough?

 

[Black_Fly]

Cattle dogs are tough and amazingly quick. Better biters than collies. Fast in and out. One wolf would run away from a couple cow dogs. A pack of wolves would be dangerous for the dingos.

 

[Black_Fly]

like him?!

View attachment 143671

six and a half kilos of unbridled strength, endurance and meanness. Will that be enough?

I think I have his sister.

 

[lowangle al]

Here is one of my cat. He like canoes but hasn't been out in one, yet.

 

[Aslowhand]

Pastore Abruzzese and Montagne des Pyrénées are the officially approved and used livestock guardian dogs in Switzerland. They are mainly used to protect herds of sheep or goats. To ensure protection, at least two dogs guard a herd, often three or more are used. These dogs are said to be capable of killing wolves that are searching for prey in a protected herd.
These dogs are large, strong and weigh a lot. If I imagine two or more such dogs in my canoe, with all the gear and food for me and the dogs...then I would rather take memaquay's cat with me


Photo credit: Herdenschutzhunde Schweiz