Painter Bungee and winky sized deck caps?

[Guest]

I have bungee bow and stern on all our canoes to hold down lengths of painter line. For that purpose I much prefer a sizable deck plate and a / \ of bungee. And a decent sized drain hole at the very tip.

PC180150 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

But the tiny deck caps used on some composite hulls stymie me. I usually end up with a short, keel line run of bungee, and a smaller drain hole than I would like.

Plus I am accustomed to securing the painter under and between two runs of bungee, and pulling it straight out the same way, so it is never accidentally wrapped under a bungee. With a single bungee run I grab guess which side wrong half the time. Son of a . . . . .guessed wrong again.

I have tried bungee across the top of the carry thwart, but that is not very comfortable, especially with tubular aluminum. When I want to really grasp the carry thwart, with fingers wrapped around and pulling for all I am worth, I have to drop the painter line loose. Inconvenient at best, and maybe loose rope dangerous at worst.

There are a lot of tripping canoes out there with undersized deck caps. Someone must have come up with a better painter keeper system for use with small deck caps. Anyone?

 

[Guest]

I do the same thing, but I put the coils of line under the deck with a short end dangling out to grab. This is to keep branches ect from getting caught on the painter. Even with a short deck, or no deck, I can tuck the coils in the V formed by the interior hull stems.

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

On our Souris River I glued a d-ring to the flotation tank and bungee the coiled painter to that. Not as good as the deck storage but keeps the painter out of the way when pushing through a trail choked with hazel or alder scrub.

 

[Guest]

I do the same thing, but I put the coils of line under the deck with a short end dangling out to grab. This is to keep branches ect from getting caught on the painter. Even with a short deck, or no deck, I can tuck the coils in the V formed by the interior hull stems.

On densely overhung swamp runs and the like I do the same and put the painter under the deck plate. The / \ of bungee on big deck plates is a single length, with a / of bungee running fore and aft underneath the deck.

I am still thinking about a better solution for my canoes with winky deck caps. Even 6 inches of deck plate is a too short joke for my preferred painter and drain hole purposes.

Thinking to the point that I brought the Malecite and Wilderness into the shop for more cogitation. OH GOD, PRECIOUS WARM SHOP AIR IS ESCAPING OUT THE DOOR.

But it was a done deed.

My first thought is to add a, um, miniature trapezoidal kneeling thwartish platform, attached to the bottom of the inwales, running from the end of the short deck caps back to within a couple inches of the carry thwarts. There is plenty of gap there for hand carries, the RX Wilderness deck cap ends 9 inches before the carry thwart.

Something like a 5 or 6 inch long mini platform, recess attached to the underside of the inwales /_\ behind the existing deck cap.

Now I wish I had not cut up that scrap piece of DougD carbon fiber. There is no real stress on that stem extension platform, and with a piece of car door edging glued to the exposed carbon fiber end that would have made a nil weight expansion for painter bungees.

But I can epoxy and urethane some quarter inch hardwood, which would easily allow me to screw in accessory pad eyes or J hooks on top.

heck, in a tandem an extended painter keeper platform might be handy as a recessed bow paddler tray.

I see some experimentation in my future.

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Maybe you can up with another use for yoga blocks? Would add some extra flotation too!

 

[Alan Gage]

On our Souris River I glued a d-ring to the flotation tank and bungee the coiled painter to that. Not as good as the deck storage but keeps the painter out of the way when pushing through a trail choked with hazel or alder scrub.

I started attaching mine to the float tanks as well. Got sick and tired of sticks and branches catching on the painters during portages. It will still hang up at times but not nearly as bad.

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

most of my canoes have no decks at all but do have carry thwarts at each end.. This is what I use
http://www.rutabaga.com/Bungee-Dealee-Bobs_p_4409.html

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I am anti-deck plate because they serve no useful function for me, and like skid plates they add weight exactly where I don't want it most -- at the ends, where they provide inertial resistance to turning and bobbing over waves.

I always removed the ugly Royalex and plastic screw-on deck plates from my all my whitewater canoes and even sawed off John Berry's epoxied-on extended deck plates. Deck plates are not necessary for water shedding in an end bagged canoe. I replaced them with small plastic end caps just to protect the gunwale join from damage when end-pivot lifting the canoe.

For my flatwater canoes, I prefer the aesthetics of deckless canoes, such as Mike Galt's from the 70's and 80's

and Pat Moore's from the same era

as well as modern manufacturers such as Savage River.

At most on a flat water canoe, I'd prefer a very short and almost weightless carbon end cap with drain hole, such as those pioneered by Dogpaddle and Colden Canoe. Swift Canoe followed with the carbon end caps below, but even they are unnecessarily long simply to protect the nose joint.

I didn't have the heart to cut out the wooden inlaid decks from my Hemlock and Bell canoes, but there's no more reason to attach painter ropes to those decks than to non-existent decks. Here is my preferred method of painter attachment. The coil-on-bottom is instantaneous to stow and deploy from the canoe, and it automatically deploys if the canoe turns over in the water.

I sometimes will stick the painter under bungee dealee bobs, as in the above pictures, on my SRT and Wildfire when carrying them, but when I'm carrying a deckless canoe I just tie the painters off to the thwarts.

 

[Chip]

I have bungee bow and stern on all our canoes to hold down lengths of painter line. For that purpose I much prefer a sizable deck plate and a / \ of bungee. And a decent sized drain hole at the very tip.

But the tiny deck caps used on some composite hulls stymie me. I usually end up with a short, keel line run of bungee, and a smaller drain hole than I would like.

Plus I am accustomed to securing the painter under and between two runs of bungee, and pulling it straight out the same way, so it is never accidentally wrapped under a bungee. With a single bungee run I grab guess which side wrong half the time. Son of a . . . . .guessed wrong again.

I'm not a fan of / \ style painter restraints. In that arrangement, the painter is held perpendicular to the direction of travel, which greatly enhances the ability of passing branches to catch on the painter. Further, the painter has to be pulled straight out, the same way. That means, 50% of the time, you will be on the wrong side to pull it out. I much favor the -- approach: a single loop of bungee at right angle to the centerline of the hull. As another poster noted, you leave a length of rope hanging from the end of the boat, and whether you pull the loose or the bound end, the result is the rope clears the bungee. While paddling whitewater, I have always taken a lot of swims. I just find an end of the boat and pull the painter, no worry about whether pulling it straight out from the same side. And, the painter doesn't catch on passing branches nearly as often as with the / \ set up.

In solo boats, I've mostly stopped using painter restraints. The reason is that when I'm sitting in the middle of the boat, I can't reach a painter that is restrained on the deck plate. Rather, I prefer the MacGrady-style, loosely-looped painter to be draped over the thwart within easy reach. That way, when I hop out of the boat, I can do so with a painter in hand, rather than running to the end of the boat to grab a painter off the deck plate.

 

[gumpus]

Ty-ups on a boat with winky decks

 

[gumpus]

Sorry, apparently my image file size is too big. My bad.

 

[gumpus]

 

[Guest]

Painters strung from the stems to the center don't work for me when tripping with packs-they get in the way. I usually pull the rear one out over the rear packs after packing the boat, and drape it just behind me where i can grab it before disbarking and put it back there getting back in. I coil to painters in the bungee so I just have to pull the end and it all comes out.

 

[Guest]

I'm not a fan of / \ style painter restraints. In that arrangement, the painter is held perpendicular to the direction of travel, which greatly enhances the ability of passing branches to catch on the painter. Further, the painter has to be pulled straight out, the same way. That means, 50% of the time, you will be on the wrong side to pull it out.

I do trap the painter line with the bungee below the deck plates on branchy creeks and tight streams. Yes, it does have to be pulled straight out, the same way it was put in, straight down with a length of the / \ bungee trapping each side. I can not recall a single time that I somehow managed to pull it out sideways, underneath one of the bungees. That would require some weird special effort.

I do leave the bitter end of the painter 3 inches loose, but most often just snatch and grab the entire coil, so that I am not suddenly holding 15 feet of loose rope

In solo boats, I've mostly stopped using painter restraints. The reason is that when I'm sitting in the middle of the boat, I can't reach a painter that is restrained on the deck plate. Rather, I prefer the MacGrady-style, loosely-looped painter to be draped over the thwart within easy reach. That way, when I hop out of the boat, I can do so with a painter in hand, rather than running to the end of the boat to grab a painter off the deck plate.

I admittedly have a thing about loose lines, especially on moving water. I have never been entangled in a loose line while swimming, but I neither have I ever had a painter inadvertently come loose from whatever keeper methodology I am using.

I recall a swim tale from a CTer acquaintance about a dumped canoe that hung up when a painter line, flailing around floating behind the overturned canoe, magically tied a knot at the bitter end. Which unfortunately snagged on some rock or branch.

Even things like a loose end of pack strap webbing hanging over the gunwale annoy me, it looks like sloppy seamanship.

Painter lines lying loose in the canoe would freak me out as much as not wearing a seatbelt in a vehicle. One thing that would freak me out more would be a canoe with no painters attached whatsoever.

Thing Two that would freak me out is racking or unracking a canoe with loose dangling painters. The painter lines are also my bow and stern tie down lines. I am not tying or untying them every time I move the canoe. I have rubber banded friends loose painter lines while going to and from roof rack just to avoid that.

I do not want those lines flopping loose when I am under the yoke, and really really do not want them dangling loose from the roof rack where I might forget to tie them off.

Bad things happen when you drive over a loose bowline.

Part of my winky deck plate grumble may have to do with the size and length of the painter line itself. Preferably something handkindly like 5 16 floating line. As a general rule of thumb, 15 or 16 feet long, or as long as the canoe. That is a big wad of line on a winky deck plate, and it stands tall and proud, no matter the coil orientation.

Painters strung from the stems to the center don't work for me when tripping with packs-they get in the way. I usually pull the rear one out over the rear packs after packing the boat, and drape it just behind me where i can grab it before disbarking and put it back there getting back in. I coil to painters in the bungee so I just have to pull the end and it all comes out.

On the canoes with spray covers, and on the decked canoes, there is not a lot of exposed gunwale or cockpit edge to grab while working my way forward to the bow painter coiled 8 feet away. All of those boats have a utility thwart, with a sail mount, compass mount and lateral bungee.

And an open cam cleat, so I can jam the bowline easily accessible in the cleat and coil the bit of excess beside it under a thwart bungee, with the bow painter secured near at hand and easily accessible.

 

[Guest]

I don't do whitewater, but did get a painter that had a knot in it caught on a log in some current-big lesson learned. I am also amazed at the number of people I paddle with in canoes and kayaks that use no painters at all! One person whos empty boat floated away after launching once still refuses to use them. I don't get it.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Knots in painters are suicidal.

 

[Guest]

I am also amazed at the number of people I paddle with in canoes and kayaks that use no painters at all! One person whos empty boat floated away after launching once still refuses to use them. I don't get it.

I do not recall many, or any, of the folks I paddle with lacking painter lines on their boats. I was surprised when my brother in law seemed to think that quality floating painter line was a superfluous option on the MRC Freedom Solo outfitting.

I know the couple of boats I have passed along to him all had painter lines installed, and deck plate bungee keepers. But for roof racked transport he uses all straps, for both belly ties and bow and stern ties. I know he has been doing some river running, if that was sans any painters I gotta wonder who he is paddling amongst for companionable advice.

I might noodle around on a pond during a canoe test paddle without painters , but just like I would not head up my 440 ft dirt driveway without first clicking a seat belt on, I would not paddle that far without painters.

Knots in painters are suicidal.

Loose lines are asking for trouble at least. I can easily see a loose pile of rope on the canoe bottom falling out in a swim and tying an unassisted overhand knot as it uncoils. That might not be a problem 99 times, especially with floating rope. The hundredth time might be a disaster I do not want to visit.

 

[Odyssey]

I'm not sure what purpose my cheapo plastic decks serve. They're riveted in, and wouldn't be any trouble to remove or replace. I envision their removal, leaving space enough for my bow painter to tuck in between shell and grab handle. With a bow paddler up there I don't want to toss that loose rope at her feet, so it stays gathered in a rubber elastic fastened to the grab handle. My stern painter hangs loosely gathered behind me, with similar rubber band. These rubber bands are as easily replaced as they are broken. Not ideal. I also envision a replacement deck, made of attractive whatever wood I can fashion and fit to upscale my ride. Might as well do both decks, of course. I hate looping the painter around the grab handles. It's a "neat and tidy" thing. Much prefer a D-ring inside the hull perhaps? Much to consider.

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure what purpose my cheapo plastic decks serve. They're riveted in, and wouldn't be any trouble to remove or replace. I envision their removal, leaving space enough for my bow painter to tuck in between shell and grab handle.

I do appreciate even the too winky plastic deck plates in one abusive guise. On our bigger, heavier canoes, with the hull on the ground, I can not simply flip the hull onto my shoulders when getting under the yoke. I start off a couple feet in front of the yoke and flip invert just the bow on high, with the stern deck plate or cap bearing the brunt of the ground contact abuse. Then I can gunwale walk back under the yoke.

The same when moving a canoe on or off the storage rack, or on off the roof racks. Coming off a rack I pull the stern back level until just a few feet of bow gunwales are resting on the crossbar, lower the stern to the ground, walk around and get under the yoke. Reverse for putting the canoe on racks.

The plastic deck plates on some of the heavier canoes are a bit chewed up, but I have not had to replace one yet, excepting old beater boats I was repairing. But, if my eventual choices are replace the deck cap, or repair the bow stem and ends of the gunwales, I will take the simpler choice.

With a bow paddler up there I don't want to toss that loose rope at her feet, so it stays gathered in a rubber elastic fastened to the grab handle. My stern painter hangs loosely gathered behind me, with similar rubber band. These rubber bands are as easily replaced as they are broken.

I do love rubber bands when tripping. I start off with a couple or three spares wrapped around a canteen and by the time camp is set up there is a wad of a dozen wrapped there.

I do love rubber bands, but have a couple hard to break bad habits. I try to always wrap loose rubber bands around that canteen, but too often I put them in my pocket just for now. And forget about them, put something else in that pocket, pull that thing out and lose litter the rubber band on the ground.

That tan color does not help the lost and littered aspect. I have some bright blue and bright yellow rubber bands, but they are short thick ones from grocery produce like celery and do not stretch very far.

Bad rubber band habit number 2, I do use rubber bands around the painter lines occasionally, even with the line tucked under double bungees. Almost inevitable I pull the loose end of the painter free and presto, the rubber band is caught suspended on the line.

 

[Odyssey]

The short blue rubber bands from produce are great, because they're also thicker than the slim red ones we accumulate at home. I'll knot them together if need be, to give me a longer wrap around the rope. I HATE littered detritus of twist ties and the like, so I try to be on the lookout for my own snapped and sprung rubber bands. They only last a season and are easily replaced each trip. I have spare punctured bicycle inner tubes I can't bring myself to throw away. I have tried them as ties on thwarts for paddles etc. Not happy with that experiment. I should cut them into ideal lengths for painters. One more idea scribbled down. If I were a true child from Beaver Cleaver times I'd simply bring along my rubber band ball. But I can't remember where that got to, along with my marble jar, lucky rabbit's foot, and pellet gun. Life ain't fair. A rubber band ball would be way cool on trips to play catch. I should never have given my excellent glove to our youngest son. I wonder what he'd trade for it back? But then my wife would need a glove too. And then there's the fact that she throws like...I can be happy with just a pocketful of rubber bands.