Rosy Dawn

[Mihun09]

This is a customers boat in for repair. It would be the second customer ever.

Apparently there is a hole in the glass somewhere, we have yet to find it, but most likely on the outside somewhere. It had some serious water penetration and even after being in the boat house for a couple of months there is still water under the glass. For now we are digging out the buckled and soaked strips from the inside. We will obviously need to replace some but need it to dry out before we start replacing wood.

This is family heirloom, his father built it, . Ugly previous repairs aside, it is treasured by the owner.

 

[stripperguy]

Very cool that you'll help a family preserve their heirlooms, memories and blemishes are one and the same...
How old is the build? It looks to be polyester or vinylester, or extremely poorly adhered epoxy. Before epoxy became consumer grade, polyester (and later, vinylester) was the only choice for the backyard builder.

After 28 years of faithful service, here's what became of my last polyester boat:

View attachment zmQAB74O8wwoB-9_6SGi2-Vz4ktma6ADxSxNMlRGGA5bqKhAp9cwQS1cqYsNMdGgsjrHI-6RmyKN8epPucIW23a_Ig0sjbH1He5T

 

[Iskweo]

I am thinking a polyester glass also. It did have some wood bonded to the glass but peeled up rather easily. The repair will get epoxy. Wait till we start on the bottom...that will be an adventure.

I like those plaques using your old hull remnants.

Christy

 

[Mihun09]

I'm wondering if the epoxy resin will bond with the polyester, if that is what this is.

 

[memaquay]

Epoxy will bond with polyester, I've done it a few times. I've tried to strip epoxy glass off a stripper. Even with a heat gun and torch, I was unsuccessful. I have watched repairs on strippers where the entire dodgy piece is cut out and then new strips are matched as best as possible and reglassed.

 

[martin2007]

"Rosy Dawn, what's that flower you have on? Could it be a faded rose from days gone by?"

 

[sailsman63]

I'll be watching to see how well this repair comes out...

It's a little hard to see in the photos, but it appears that the strips are full-length with no splices. I might check under those brass stem-bands for the leak, especially at any screw points. Water could wick all the way to the center through the xylem of the wood.

If the resin really is polyester, there may not be a specific leak point. Polyester is known for not being fully water-tight. In earlier wood-cored composites, a lot of boats required major repairs when the wood members rotted, even though they were fully encased. (I worked on one such)

Any idea how this boat was stored and handled? Any known impact history?

 

[Mihun09]

I'm going to enjoy this considering I have never done a repair like this and it will be finicky which I like. The boat itself was very well built, I imagine if you are only going to build one canoe in your lifetime you go to this amount of detail, such as plugging the outwale screw heads and such. It is impressive to see these details.

This is only the second polyester boat I have laid eyes upon, so some of the issues are new to me. Other than the obvious wood damaged area(s), there are anomalies under the glass that are curious. I have photos for them. This boat has a keel but it is not screwed on, obviously bonded to the hull with some small fasteners on the inside likely just for alignment purposes. I suspect the leak is along the keel at some point and will have a better look and photos once we get it flipped over.

It is stored outside in the fellows back yard. Not sure if it just sits on the ground or is covered. However, if not, it would be exposed to Winnipeg's excessive rain events that could collect along one side of the keel. The water penetration and rot is excessive and apparently started sometime in 2016.

This is what these adults do on Christmas morning... post canoe photos instead of ripping open the few presents we give each other. Of course, I am usually up very early and Christine is still sleeping so why not.



We decided to add some weight specific to the buckled areas to see if we can get it to flatten out as it dries. So far it seems to be working.

 

[Mihun09]

Ok, so these are photos of the original repair before we started peeling the glass. They did two layers of cloth but did not lap the edges at all. The leak is likely in this area.

 

[Jim Dodd]

In the first Polyester hull, that I reskinned. I used a heat gun and peeled the whole outside layer. Cutting the glass into strips helped a lot. The fumes were not pleasant, and was done in the Summer, outside. Hint ?
It always amazed me that Polyester didn't bond to wood better than it did !

You certainly have a good project ahead !

Jim

 

[Guest]

In the first Polyester hull, that I reskinned. I used a heat gun and peeled the whole outside layer. Cutting the glass into strips helped a lot. The fumes were not pleasant, and was done in the Summer, outside. Hint ?
It always amazed me that Polyester didn't bond to wood better than it did !

Everyone who is happy to never again use Polyester resin raise their hands.

Yup, that is everyone of a certain age who that first started with Polyester resin. Awful, stanky, probably poisonous stuff, that did not even adhere that well. Gawd bless the day that epoxy resins became commonly available.

I became sensitized to Polyester resins, and Vinylester resins, years ago. Maybe to the fumes, definitely the sanding dust. I can tell way too soon when I am working on a poly or vinyl ester resin boat, and try to don full PPE, or at least respirator and goggles, and change clothes and shower as soon as I am done.

I wish I had taken PPE precautions to avoid that sensitization before it became an itchy scratchy issue.

I too am looking forward to watching the repair sequence and techniques.

 

[Mihun09]

If you have a stripper with a leak, fix it before it gets like this.

I'll be replacing 6 strips 51/2 feet long to get rid of the damage. Thin strips too, .154 thickness. I have some 1/4 already cut so will just plane them down to suit.

 

[sailsman63]

Yuck... That's more than a summer's worth of rot. Is the outer glass savable, I wonder, or will it need to be cut out and patched as well?

 

[Sven]

Kudos for taking on that repair! Looks like you will have your hands full for a while. Good on you for saving it!

 

[Mihun09]

Sailsman, there was a large amount of glass separation on the outside as well so it will need to be cut out and replaced. Since a portion had already been removed and I needed it as backing for the new strips, I duct taped it back in and supported it with a ratchet strap so I can peel out the old strips. I'll work from the inside, glass the inside then should only need to glass the outside.

Definitely some serious rot. When Christy looked at it before we picked it up, it had trapped water moving under the glass layers inside and out. I think the actual leak location is at the keel near the bow where the black rot is. Hoping anyway.

Sven, thank you for the kind words, but I am getting paid for this, albeit not much. Ask Christy what she quoted.

Mr. Dodd. The fellow who owns this wishes to use it this coming Summer and we need to send it home to create much needed space in the boathouse.

Mike, I am making this up as I go so "do not try this at home".

 

[memaquay]

Be easier to build a new one. Sentimentality is highly over-rated. Ba humbug!

 

[Mihun09]

So we know where your boats will be after you are gone Mem, in the landfill?

On we go. For it being polyester the wood between the major rot was in there really well, but I have chisels and patience. I have the first new strip in and maybe get another in tonight. At least the staples I am putting in won't be an issue as they original builder used them as well. This is a bit too finicky, I wish I could do better at fitting but that first strip is against one that was cut down the edge so not as fair as I would have liked. Resin will fill those gaps.

I did find when I pulled the strips out above the keel that what looked like finishing nails into the keel are actually just holes. So, maybe he used the nails for alignment on the keep them pulled them out before glassing. Any water getting under the keel would have a quick way under the glass for sure.

These were full length strips so when I stopped the strips amidships I cut a taper so they aren't a butt joint but will lap the existing strips.

 

[Mihun09]

6 strips in, 1/2 to go. Pics at 11.

 

[Guest]

If you have a stripper with a leak, fix it before it gets like this.

I'll be replacing 6 strips 51/2 feet long to get rid of the damage. Thin strips too, .154 thickness. I have some 1/4 already cut so will just plane them down to suit.

Yoikes.

Does the original repair estimate still hold? That is a lot more damaged wood than I expected to see. I will be following along with curiosity.

And with questions. Is the polyester resined cloth lifted around the edges of that rotten wood removal? Syringe some epoxy resin below the cloth and weight it with sandbags atop wax paper to reattach it?

Will the repaired canoe still be stored outside? Will you topcoat the remaining polyester resin with epoxy? UV inhibited epoxy, or topcoat that with spar varnish?

More power to you for saving a family heirloom.

 

[Mihun09]

Mike, this is still a $300 repair. It was quoted before uncovering all the wood. Hopefully the fellow will offer up some more.

The polyester cloth is lifted where we lifted it. We used a utility knife and scored the glass then peeled it off. I have feathered the edge to make a nicer transition with the new glass.

The repaired canoe will still be stored outside. I will topcoat with Epifanes varnish.

Good learning experience and I have my reputation to uphold here. We get these repair jobs through Wilderness Supply. They have clients ask who they recommend for repairs and we get the call.

Stripping done, came out decent enough and is primarily flat. Ready for glass... oh darn, I need to go buy epoxy and hardener tomorrow. Pooh.